Hey Dener, thanks. I'm going to have a look tomorrow at the control issues. I haven't had any issues whatsoever, but without looking I'm sure i know why you're going through the ground. I thought I'd trimmed it down, but i think i still have more than 16 collision groups active, and some randomly get ignored (this was happenibg before on multiple groups, but i haven't had the error message in weeks. Thought I'd takeb care of it but i guess not).