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(1 edit) (+1)

Just dropped off my second survey response now that I've done everything in the build, so I wanted to bump this thread up to elaborate on some of the feedback I couldn't expand on in there.

First off, I just wanted to say it was, once again, an incredible experience. Minotaur Hotel is really a mastercraft in the VN space. Not only is it well written and drawn, it takes a lot of work to set the text pace to match the character's speaking cadence, to set the sprite animations to fit the scene and the text, to get the right music and timed sound effects for the scene, to pick when choices appear on screen and to properly write them to convey what's being chosen, to make a unique scrolling animation for each the major characters (including using it for an amazing Big Reveal), the secrets and small cascading choices that have these small fun effects... really to just put this level of polish in. You all work very, very hard to fully leverage this medium, and it glows for it. This is what makes Minotaur Hotel truly feel alive, and it's no small task to do so. My sincerest thank you to the whole team for all the really hard work you put in to make this piece shine.

And all of that praise is without even touching the writing! It continues to be top notch, the characters continue to feel alive, the tension rises and falls well, the mysteries layered on mysteries are fascinating, and as a player I was actually rewarded for figuring things out. It's a hard line to walk, but it's walked with aplomb.
And I know you all were worried about the Hinterlands arc (less so after the devlog it seems), and it can feel a little sudden to start (yes, having Storm be our PoV character helped a lot), but players quickly see the parallels between the story being told there and back in the hotel. I truly came to love the real down-to-earth shift it provided, and think it really enriches the experience. Not only does it flesh out the world and the real aftereffects of things like Clement's actions, I think it expertly reinforces the themes you want to convey. And it has 2nd best boy, Storm! Well done.

And while I'm still slinging praise, great job once more with the art, Nanoff. The new cg's are excellent: P and Storm in the car stands out, especially since it fit so well narratively while being a genius way to cut down on needing extra assets. The zoom in shots with Asterion, both brushing his back (that wonderful tongue sticking out sprite!) and getting to truly be face-to-face with him felt special because of the extra work you put in on them, and they really enhance the experience. In addition, I still have old builds kicking around, and I know it was a lot of work to redo the sprites as you have (even if they had to be done from a technical perspective for future customoo-zation), but I think the little touch ups you added are great. Great work.

To stop myself from being here all night just singing your praises though, I should switch to the parts I wanted to expand on and maybe spark some conversations about, eh? 

  1. I tried out runs with all three characters you can ask Jean to find for the hotel, and I was pretty confused about Wolf and why he didn't get to have any sort of special ability like Khenbish's cooking or Themba's financing. At least, it didn't call it out if he had one, I'm not sure if he maybe can mitigate danger in the way the speedrunner background can? Perhaps you could add that or make his danger stat a -1 or -2 to make him a more meaningful choice? To be honest, I already found him weakest of the three (his intro drags to emphasize stuff we already know about wolves in my opinion), and this lack of ability didn't help.
  2. I like the start of the side-routes, getting to know our staff more, but I was kind-of disappointed that Luke mostly just stands there and infodumps his story at you. Since we have more of a rapport with Luke to start from, why aren't we chatting over drinks, or while walking around to stretch our legs? This is the flipside of all the polish that goes into the rest of the vn, just standing around and hearing from a sprite of Like doesn't feel as engaging without the movement, or the extra slice-of-life factor of getting interrupted by the Cobalts to help with something. Instead it feels like we're arbitrarily getting one conversation topic done in the chain, then stopping for the day so you have to spend more time tomorrow because time is a resource in the game. I know this means extra work on fleshing these out, but it didn't feel as rewarding as Asterion's Project, or talking to Robert (not counting how much better recruiting an extra hand is at this point in time), so I didn't do it in my 'main' runs.
  3. I found the process of earning things through R&D kind of odd. I understand gameplay-wise why we spend our accumulated points as though it was a shop, even if it would narratively make more sense to pick a project up front that gets points placed into it, but it's unintuitive to me that spending points only pops after you hear back from your R&D team during their report rather than, say, spending them while at your desk. I know you wrote extra variations of the scene based on who was assigned in R&D that day, which is a nice touch, but it felt clunky that this is the flow, waiting for the choice to pop up in a normal renpy button that doesn't list their price, either. Making yet another whole new interface is extra work, so even if you keep the purchase screen to the midday report, please add the cost to that choice because it's not a secret when it's listed at your desk.

Those are the three things I have for now. I encourage anyone to respond with their thoughts, especially since I'm trying to also propose solutions with my feedback, haha.

Thanks again for all the hard work you all put into this game for us.

(+2)

Thanks a lot for the kind and thorough feedback, RockJock. I'm glad all the work we put into the game pays off and people notice all the polish. 

And thank you for pointing out stuff that could be improved, too. 

1) Yes, Wolf is the most barebones side character at the moment. We plan on expanding on him in the future as he gets his own route content and we have a side quest planned for him that I think people will really like, but we couldn't really get to it until we develop him more.

Hell, I think Themba and Khenbish don't get enough attention either, aside from their side quests and routes (eventually) they aren't very present throughout the main story chapters. I added the scene with Khenbish cooking a local dish in chapter 17 somewhat late into development to just give the character a little more presence and write fun interactions between him and the cast. They were kind of a low priority since we had so much stuff we wanted to get to, aside from chapter 14 there isn't a single day with a management section attached that didn't have some sort of story event attached, we didn't have space for an optional scene even if we wanted to.

As much as I'd love to do that on one of the future 0.5.x patches, maybe add an extra day in the middle where your chosen character talks with Asterion maybe, to flesh them out more and show how positive of an impact he's making on people's lives, 0.5 is really intricate and I don't want to mess with it. 

2) This is a great idea. I don't think it would be hard to go back and make small rewrites to have Luke and the player do some tasks while you talk, and more cobalt shenanigans are always fun (though it requires a little extra effort since the scene only takes place in the lounge if Luke is manning it, otherwise Luke helps out in reception). It's definitely something to keep in mind when we write the other characters' scenes. 

3) Yeaaaah it doesn't make a ton of sense, does it? Unfortunately it would be hard to fix now. I think I can shuffle some stuff around and have the selection happen before the team is shown, that's definitely doable and would make it less jarring, so I will give that a shot... but moving the selection over to right after the daily agenda before the Mc does his daily tasks would be really hard, I can't promise that. 

(2 edits)

Certainly! With the work you all put in and the enjoyment I get out of playing, it only feels fair to repay it by engaging with you all here.

1) Yeah, I think it's a fair point that none of these three choice characters really get to shine yet. I picked Khenbish in my first run and was a little sad he didn't get to do a whole lot, but the homecooked meal was a super nice touch! And Themba is similar, but because he knew Asterion and provides insight that affects some dialogue later when thinking about P's grandfather, he feels more integrated even if he has the least scenes (No homecooked meal or second PoV chapter like Wolf). Oh and that reminds me that the artifacts you can find for the front desk/way you summon one as the Art background to get your 2nd choice in the list are genius. I felt it looked empty until you find one (or two), and it adds a lot getting to permanently see them as part of the background! Kudos on finding fun ways to showcase choices there (same with the restaurant screens).

Have you all considered how many days the player is going to get during the VN? Or well, it doesn't matter the exact number of days but rather how many things you want the player to see through to completion in a single playthrough in general. The MC has nearly infinite time, but the VN and main plot doesn't: you've mentioned multiple times that the player will not have enough time to do everything and learn everyone's stories/do everyone's sidequests in a single playthrough, which leans in to making the big choices matter more since more people will see all sides of them. I think that's a fair and important approach to take that leverages the VN medium, but maybe you're going to find you need to squeeze in more actions in a day to hit this number of completed things you're planning on having the player hit in an given run?
Looking at this build, you have I think 12 days to work with, with your options increasing over time. Luke's hangouts have 5 days (IIRC), Robert takes 4 to recruit, Asterion's project is infamously a 9 day affair that starts 3 days in, and that's not counting wanting to cook with Khenbish or manage assets with Themba to see how it works, get the flavor of them working, etc. If we give 5 hangout days for the other 5 staff members you can recruit in this build and count 1 day for seeing how Khenbish and Themba each work, that puts us at 45 days worth of content (and don't forget that it's about completion, so it's in chunks of 5, or basically 9 for Robert since you have to recruit him first). While part of the point is to have a lot of options, this many may already limit how many other things can pop up to take the MC's time - we already know of 3 new staff members for next build (even if only Leaders can get all 3), and there's still the Hydra we have concept art for and one other character hinted at in this build that could be staff, too (a certain book author that keeps popping up). 
Also, there is an opportunity cost letting a character be idle for the day instead of contributing to R&D or Exploration. We might see this more when there's a larger 'Tech tree' ready in R&D.

You all know what feels right with the number of things you want the player to complete in a run versus the number of days you have in the plot, but if you're feeling squeezed and think your average player will do 2, maybe 3 full playthroughs and worry the content would take 5 or 6 to see 'most' of it, perhaps you could move Hangouts to their own timeslot in the day? Maybe call it 'Grabbing lunch' with a character? Keep the opportunity cost of making them have an idle day off, but now I can grab lunch with Luke and start recruiting Robert on the same day. It frees up a lot more time for the MC, so you need to give them extra little things to burn their 'active' part of the day on or have slice-of-life events pop up that take this 'active' time away, but it doesn't feel too bad as the player to 'lose' a day since I'm still progressing with my staff during lunch time. This also ties into point 2, making the hangout with Luke (and others) feels a little more dynamic: chatting over lunch certainly feels relatively peaceful and a good place to just have a lot of conversation rather than movement if that's easier.

EDIT: Of course, this is more to plan for, more content to write, etc. Just wanted to throw out the idea since you've already mentioned having a hard time fitting certain things in that you wanted, sometimes things just have to be cut and stay on the cutting room floor.

3) Oh yeah, I know how finnicky moving around code and order of operations like that can be when you already wrote it one way, haha. Even moving up the selection would help I think, and if the system doesn't get shuffled around, I think you can still get a win if you just write the text a little differently to flow with what can't really change a lot.

(+1)

I think in general we want to give players enough time over the course of the full game where they can do a lot of what they set out to do and get to know a handful of staff members well, but leaving enough stuff left to do for a subsequent playthrough. 

0.5 definitely skews hard on the "lots of shit to do, too little time" side of things, especially if we keep adding side stuff on 0.5.x patches like we plan to do, so 0.6 will most likely be a breather episode where we give players plenty of free time and focus more on Asterion's romance and the side characters than the ongoing mysteries. Which will still be there, but I think the last couple chapters of 0.5 were eventful enough and the cast deserves a break without too much crazy shit happening. 

Right on, glad to hear we'll have more time to chew on current revelations for a bit. 👍