Which i believe is fitting since at this point, the master is now a whole new entity then before. Seeming like once you open the doors to the route, the master changes altogether. How did you feel about the shift? Was it gradual enough to make you reflect upon your actions or harsh enough to make you recoil? I understand now what someone told me about this cycle being broken, but in a explosive way. Rather then harmonies in the main route What happens to Asterion once free in some routes is unknown, but then he would be subjugated to the las against his kind no? Broken in such a state. Kinda continuing this cycle which the game loves to point out and keep surfaced. What is your thoughts on the main route after completing all the ruthless routes? It makes me think that the simple humane actions you do by giving asterion kindness is very underplayed. Made to think its the simplest thing one can do yet has a huge impact as we can see now.
The hard part for me is the dissonance pre-the Ruthless route's start after Chapter 12. The Ruthless Master's actions versus the rest of the narrative still going on before the story forks - recruiting Kota or Luke, the other times you're chatting with Asterion about starting up the Hotel and not being the worst etc. Once the route begins after Chapter 12, it is a lot easier to separate the character the Master has become from me as the Player/MC and the choices I'm picking to see the content. It's still tough seeing a very traumatized person not only be denied the help and therapy they need to deal with their trauma, but instead getting new trauma heaped on to them, but once you're in the Ruthless chapters, the Master is more of their own character with their own hubris that they need to get foisted by like any good tragedy. In fact, I'd say these chapters are a great tragedy that really has punch because you're in some control over what type/details of the tragedy you see.
I do think this helps underscore a point the devs made about the Ruthless route before it was done: it does make doing the right thing more impactful to do because you can actively chose the wrong thing to do to someone like Asterion. The tough part is how much a VN wants you to self-insert to the story, so it feels much more personal not just choosing to do evil things, but hearing the dark thoughts in Asterion's head and actions behind closed doors that an abuser would never see as a consequence of their actions. It's really important to note just how much they wrote the MC to very intentionally not do anything that would abuse his power over Asterion beyond the ruthless content and maybe trying to send him out naked or just in his underwear. The main route MC talks with Kota about this because of the power dynamic, and the only reason our relationship with Asterion can work is that Asterion knows we're never actually ordering him to do something, even when we say "refer to us by name, not as Master" - he knows it's never truly an order, just colloquialism.
That breaking things bit was me, heh. I've been thinking more about that and ruthless in general.
The title of the route is extremely relevant. It's not the "ruthless" route, it's specifically "The Ruthless Master". This means many different things at once. It's your part in this story. It's the actions taking place. But more importantly, it's one of the sacred roles the labyrinth was built around.
Whether it's gradual or harsh is fairly irrelevant. It can be either depending on your choices. Are you withdrawn immediately and justifying your bad decisions the entire time or did you accidentally "slip" and break your promise to never send Asterion to the valley? The reason goodness can exist is because of the Gods and their lack of imagination. "The Ruthless Master" is almost like a fast food training video or an infomercial. They take things to their worst possible conclusion to get the point across, regardless of how realistic it would be for you to get in those situations. This is how Gods saw human nature. The labyrinth was constructed to give a human the power to gain could ever want except one: Time. No matter how gradual or suddenly the shift to Ruthless Master is, no matter the excuses or motivations, it's all just a reverberation of the past playing out again. What may seem like once to you is something Asterion has lived through more than an unforgivable amount of times.
I haven't mentioned it until now, but Act 1 of The Ruthless Master is titled "Time Demands His Due". Chapter 12 pre-TRM is very different from Chapter 12 normally because of how much work is done to establish how stark our leads perception of time is. This comes through the dance between Asterion's thoughts and Nemesis's offerings. This of course happens throughout the good route, but there are a few distinctions. Nemesis no longer filters her words to be approachable by the reader and is instead focused on the timescale of someone who has lived multiple thousands of years. She likely knows we could be listening, but at that point, it is too late and wants to emphasize that no matter how important and rational we view our actions, we are utterly insignificant to the two of them.
Then there's the brilliant mechanical shift. Asterion talks about the delay between action and reaction. Likewise, there are stops inserted mid-sentence to punctuate the unnatural rhythm as well as emphasize the cruelty of endless mundanity without having a will. It's a dance between Asterion and those writing and coding. Probably the cruelest sentence is uttered here: "Reign yourself." How easily a false freedom from submission could be misappropriated into a slogan of self-power. It occupied both and considering it's said of a prince, there are many layers at play to make two words put together sting.
This repetition, odd rhythm, and self-torture to cope with physical torture all work in tandem to highlight how non-existent your voice is at this point. It's almost been entirely removed from what should be a shift into Asterion wanting to trust you. You are a blip. Your words aren't new. They're not unique. They're not special, and in the blink of an eye in the grand scheme of things, you'll be gone. This really highlights what helps the main story work. Part of why the romance is so special between you and Asterion is that it forces Asterion into a human timeframe. A good master to Asterion may be akin to a good month to us. The timescale is so vastly different that he knows there will eventually be another person to take your place. So while a romance with Asterion may be akin to a life well-spent, something eternal and sacred to your identity and experience, Asterion has to cope with knowing how finite that time is. However, because of that mortal fear he gets a chance to experience humanity to a fuller degree than he's previously been afforded.
As for Nikos and his actions, I think the fifteenth tablet is likely the most relevant thing here. There are a few things that stick out, but there's one line I want to point.
"A price must be paid to do what is right, all men know."
In a tablet titled "Folly". The right thing only requires a price when there is injustice attached, be it personal or societal. In many ways, The Ruthless Master is allegorical using figures we will understand*. It feels very ritualistic. Nikos sees the old gaining power and thus uses that opportunity to play by old-school rules. "An eye for an eye." Justice was something entirely different then and Nikos, through Nemesis, can exploit that way of thinking at the cost of harm done to at least him, possibly others.
*God, I'd love for Nikos to put on a one-person stage play iteration of this. Using a stripper pole from Luke to ascend as everyone watches on in dismay lmao. Maybe Khenbish and his die would appreciate it. :P I low-key ship them but that's neither here nor there. I just want Khenbish to be happy and I think Nikos and his oiled and burnt optimism would stick with him.
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Okay, I really need to get sleep. I just have a couple of thoughts while writing this and replaying some of The Ruthless Master route. Wish I had more energy to more into the allegorical aspects, but I don't know if my train of thought will be there tomorrow. Anyway:
Really cute to have the Fake Argos snake say the master is peacocking about.
I find it interesting that Asterion plays the Lyre. It so heavily emphasizes the strings over other material. Considering the imagery of the fates, it feels like Asterion taking some control over the strings in his life. It also brings to mind the labyrinth and yarn, also a part of "Folly'. Folly itself isn't inherently negative, more just unrealistic with an undercurrent of foolishness. Interesting that Folly is a tablet with no ornamentation that also mentions the potential of a surprise rekindling.
God, I hope even a fraction of this makes sense lmao goooooodnight
Its funny how you pull such magnificent strands of thoughts right when you go to bed hmm? Every run I play through it haunts me to believe that asterion knows how much you love him yet you as a player may or may not have that sinking feeling that this will not last forever. The scene with the knife really brought it to light. Though your time may be fleeting, it's enough that your time spent has eased his mind when you don the lead ring. The master was right when he mentions no man should have that much power.
Argos is just a whole trip on its own. At the very core of it all. It's just a play, and a role he dons to prove himself to the gods. The pelt was the mask and by the gods he did his part. I like to think once he relinquished the pelt, it was him taking the mask off. No more Argos but Nikos. Being lucky in the main route, and reaping what he sowed in the ruthless. At the very least honourable enough to fix what he has caused. That in my mind, is what makes Nikos a great character
I love hearing from everyone and getting an idea what the game has brought and how everyone digests its contents. Y'all are awesome.
Edit- I'm so glad you popped up so you can have the credit you owed I forgot you told me ;-;
Lol, pleaaaaase don't worry about credit with me unless I'm posting like an actual work. That was a comment I wrote specifically for you in regard to something you posted to make sure you got what the route was about. (Without revealing too much in case you decided to play.) That you remember the idea says more than enough.
Just as a general addendum now that I've gotten some rest:
I meant to include this when discussing the mechanical way the story expressed Asterion's reversion. It's clear the purpose was to show Asterion withdrawing and disassociating. What I wanted to conclude was how both this and the master are succumbing to spiraling thoughts and how it manifests further pushes the other away. The master, lacking time, is impatient. Asterion, having nothing but time, turns to contemplation to avoid upsetting the master. This makes the master more impatient and less kind, which causes Asterion to have to think harder on how to please him which results in a longer time between responses. It's an ebb and flow that is pushing things to their inevitable conclusion