Post by Estharon in Super Dungeon Maker comments

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I see "unlimited creativity" in that trailer, but in my experience, this type of game is usually very limited.

So, as a small benchmark, I will pose the followimg questions:

Can you replicate the scene from ALttP's desert dungeon, where you shoot a statue and the wall moves away to reveal a new path? In other words, can the map be altered during play outside of bombing walls?

Can you create bossfights with custom strategies and weaknesses? For example, can you place a monster and set it to be only vulnerable to arrows, or set it to become vulnerable to everything for 3,5 seconds when hit by bombs? Can you make monsters chase certain objects or eat them? Can you make a monster flee when the player charges a melee attack, or make it use a charge attack when the player takes a certain distance? Can you set phases for a bossfight with different behaviors?

How versatile are the appliances? Can you put a monster in a chest, and then have that monster drop a key when you beat it? Can you create a number of pressure plates or switches that unlock a door when used in the correct order, but drop enemies when used in the wrong order? Can you check if a chest has been opened or a monster killed when using a switch? Can you set a switch to play a different note every time you press it, and create piano-shaped pressure plates that open a door when you step on the note last played by the switch?

Is there a scripting function with the ability to do runtime checks, however simple it might be?

If the answer to the majority of these questions is "no", you might want to reconsider that advertising slogan.

Xero02 years ago(+5)

agreed on this

I'm checking the game rn and liking it a lot so far, but much like many games of this kind I'll allways wish that more in depth/cuztomisable stuff could be made

I think the way mario maker did a lot of things (with you dropping powerups on enemies to alter em and shaking em in the editor to change em and such) is a good way to go for a lot of things

for the matter of altering behaviour more explicitedly, I think that for basic enemies it might not be a great idea unless you add some sort of visual difference; it could be good to have "boss" enemies that are specifically meant to be edited in how they work in the editor and such, that way the player allways knows it could vary

versatility is really what they should strive for, but while keeping things sufficiently consistent to not confuse newer players, and I think these would be good ways to go bout it

Fib2 years ago(+1)

Highly doubtful. The point of this kind of software is to appeal to non-game devs. People who can't code nor do graphic design. If it had a full blown scripting system it probably would be too complicated for their target audience, something Game Builder Garage suffered from even though they went to great lengths to simplify it, but most people can't think like a programmer. Sounds like you need to download Game Maker and create a zelda-like yourself.

Estharon2 years ago(+1)

Haha, even GBG was quite limited for what it was. After all, it was presented as a game that teaches the basics of actual programming, only to lack some very basic functions any game engine should have while still being needlessly complex in some aspects. Works nice as puzzle game though.

To be clear, I don't expect unlimited possibilities in a simple dungeon maker. I chose some very common and simple elements among those that made Zelda and similar games so great, knowing that the implementation is not quite as simple, to illustrate a point.

My point is that when you sell a regular UGC exchange game with fairly tight limitations that allow varied but ultimately generic creations, advertising it with "unlimited creativity" is a lie.

There would be a plethora of slogans that are at least technically true, like "Countless Possibilities" (at least until some math geek calculates the permutations) or "Build YOUR Dungeon" (although not necessarily the exact dungeon you want), but "unlimited" is just plain false.

Fib2 years ago(+1)

I get you now. Ya unlimited possibilities is a little misleading.

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Deleted 2 years ago

Estharon2 years ago

There's a bunch of things wrong with your comment, most of all that you are talking about something else entirely than I am. Try rereading the thread and see if you can spot what you missed, the point.

Then, the idea that the switch is a children's console is just plain wrong.

Last, at least the last I'll address here: You're making a whole load of negative assumptions about how such a system would be implemented, about the methods of telegraphing, and most of all, about the players' ability to read patterns. Those assumptions tell more about your limits than those of any prospective designers, systems, or players.

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