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Okay, so this is awesome on so many levels! I wanted to reply sooner, but I’ve been caught up in the last stages of preparation for an important interview, and there weren’t quite enough hours in the day. For what it’s worth, I actually considered mentioning this lyre project of yours in that interview, as an example of innovation in modern historically-informed performance, but in the end I couldn’t quite fit it in!

But, before I get distracted, thanks so much for sharing that recording of your own lyre! And, wow, do you have every reason to be proud of your instrument! The tone is gorgeous; the sounds your lyre produces are rich and resonant, and full of colour. Good choice on the music, too. That particular theme works beautifully on your lyre. That’s especially true at the slightly slower speed you chose. Not only does that highlight the resonance of your lyre, but it nicely brings out the peaceful side of the original track. And you give a good demonstration of the range of your instrument too, in a solid performance.

I know it’s simple, and just an experiment on your part, but I think the result is quite captivating. I hope you’ll consider uploading some more in the future! Maybe there’ll come a point where you could even contribute something to the Hotel’s soundtrack yourself!

Now, onto your new instrument. I’m really impressed by this, both from what you’ve produced, but also from your entire approach. Or perhaps ‘ethos’ would be a more appropriate word here, haha.

I think the way in which you’ve used your knowledge of the history and culture of the Minoans to inform your design choices of a new instrument is very sound. Your extrapolation approach is a very reasonable one to take, I would say! Even going back just a few centuries, it’s all too easy to get bound by actual physical artifacts, and to not look beyond them. And you’re going back thousands of years, when all we have are odd scraps of information! Humans are creative creatures, both in the modern day, and in the past. I think it’s quite acceptable to take the historical record as a starting point, and to speculate what other things could have been produced based on it. If we in the modern day can speculate about something that could have been produced in a particular culture, who’s to say that someone in that culture might not have had similar ideas, even if we can’t prove it as such? And if the results of that extrapolation ends up producing something interesting, something that *could* have been, then surely that can only be a positive thing!

As a slightly random example, later this week I’m singing a vocal piece that dates from the 1500s. Only three of the four voice parts survive: one has been forever lost. A music editor has written a new part, in the style of other voice parts of the time, which completes the piece, and allows it to be performed in the modern day. Is this modern version identical to the original piece? Almost certainly not! But the piece is unperformable without it. Is it better that that piece is never performed again, preserving the integrity of the historical record, or that it’s performed in a way in which it *could* have sounded five centuries ago, so long as that’s clearly indicated? If the result is something beautiful that people enjoy, surely extrapolation is the better choice!

Or, thinking about your case specifically, your experience of Knossos gave you a really good idea: making the horns of the consecration into the basis of a lyre. But if you, as a modern person immersed in Minoan culture, could think of that, what would have stopped *an actual Minoan* from thinking the same? We may not have any evidence of an instrument like this, but it seems a little unreasonable to think that, over the thousands of years of Minoan culture, a Minoan musician didn’t at least have the idea, and experiment with it. Maybe that hypothetical experiment wasn’t successful, or the instruments weren’t sturdy enough to survive, or ended up being show-pieces that were never used, or sacred instruments that ended up being destroyed, or the whole idea was taboo from a religious standpoint, so the instruments never really saw the light of day. There are many possibilities.

Clearly, we can’t say that an instrument like that actually existed. There’s no evidence for it. But *could* it have existed, at least in principle? I would think so! And for a project like this, I think that’s more than enough. After all, your project here is to make a new instrument, using history as a guide, rather than to reproduce something that’s already been made. From what you’ve said, I think you’ve more than met that goal!

Incidentally, I love that first picture you showed of the horns, from the palace itself. I don’t think you have chosen a better picture to show the importance of that symbol!

All that being said, I think your idea to make a lyre that is both high-quality and affordable is where this project gets really interesting. Making an instrument that produces a quality sound, but which isn’t a heavy-duty investment that prices out most potential players, is such a good thing I can’t begin to emphasise it. A ‘middle-ground’ instrument like this can only help to encourage people into ancient instruments, perhaps trying them out for the first time. You’re opening up a really interesting world of music to a whole group of new people, and that’s a really great thing. I might even say a noble one.

After all, if the only trumpets one could buy were toy plastic trumpets, or trumpets made out of platinum-infused gold, who on earth would play the trumpet?

(For what it’s worth, as a professional musician, I eye the Luthieros lyres with a bit of suspicion. I’m not a string player – so I don’t know what I’m talking about! – but my instinctive, gut feeling is that those instruments might have been designed more as show-pieces than actual performing instruments. They seem more extravagant than durable. But what do I know?)

I am *super* impressed by those images you’ve shown of your new instrument. It looks beautiful, and it’s even in cedar! The design touches are classy too, particularly the flourishes in gold. That little stand is nice, too, although I’m not sure if it’s part of the set. The instrument certainly looks the part! The size sounds very practical, too. Yet the overall price is thoroughly reasonable! From my perspective, 400USD is very cheap for a decent musical instrument (although I’m not based in the Americas, so maybe my viewpoint is skewed).

The real tell here, I think, is this: based just on the looks at this point, I’d be tempted to pick up one of these instruments! I’ve idly thought about trying out stringed instruments before, so I could go full-on bard and accompany myself singing. But I’ve never really come across an instrument that I think would work for me. For instance, lutes are great, but tricky to transport. But a lyre like this? There’s a chance it might just work! It sounds like it might just hit the sweet spot of having a good tone, and get still being easy to carry around.

So you’ve already got one potential convert. So far so good!

When it arrives, please do make that comparison recording you mentioned! That’s one really good way to demonstrate how the instrument sounds. Could I also request that you say something about its dynamic range? I know that's probably a little niche, but I’d be interested to know whether it can comfortably play at a volume that could accompany a singer / another instrument. Although, given that’s the way in which Asterion uses his instrument – I hadn’t really thought I’d be duplicating his approach until just now! – maybe that’s a more important question than I thought?

Anyway, you’ve done a superb job on this instrument. Kudos! Here’s hoping it sounds as good as it looks! Although, given the materials and the construction, I think there’s a good chance that it will!

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I hope you’ll consider uploading some more in the future! Maybe there’ll come a point where you could even contribute something to the Hotel’s soundtrack yourself!

That's the plan! I'd like to record some songs for the game and if all goes well I'll include at least one in the next build. I feel like I'm skilled enough to be satisfactory, but I still need to improve my recording setup.

I figured I had some minutes to spare now and quickly recorded an attempt of the Seikilos Epitaph as we play it in the game. Again, bad microphone setup, next to no editing, all recorded in one take and after spending a week not practicing, so there are quite a few stumbles and weird noises.

View on Vocaroo >>

This uses my lyre, a big boy that's closer to a bass lyre/barbiton.

Now, regarding the Minoan-esque lyre... I haven't received it yet, but the luthier sent me a sample of what it sounds like.

View on Vocaroo >>

When I receive it I plan on recording the same Seikilos Epitaph song with my big lyre, this new one and a Luthieros one I have access to. You will be surprised how different they sound, and you will come to understand on a deeper level why I'm so happy with the Minoan-esque lyre having an accessible price tag. To put it bluntly, a lyre this small and cheap has no business sounding this good when you compare it with the expensive Luthieros one. I'll say no more on this regard, and let you reach your own conclusions when I record the same song with the same recording equipment with these three instruments.

And, FYI, I can say with a lot of experience that your suspicions about Luthieros' durability are completely justified. I won't go in details here, suffice it to say that some of the issues I've seen with them informed my decision to make resilience and durability a priority in this lyre.


But if you, as a modern person immersed in Minoan culture, could think of that, what would have stopped *an actual Minoan* from thinking the same? We may not have any evidence of an instrument like this, but it seems a little unreasonable to think that, over the thousands of years of Minoan culture, a Minoan musician didn’t at least have the idea, and experiment with it. Maybe that hypothetical experiment wasn’t successful, or the instruments weren’t sturdy enough to survive, or ended up being show-pieces that were never used, or sacred instruments that ended up being destroyed, or the whole idea was taboo from a religious standpoint, so the instruments never really saw the light of day. There are many possibilities.

Yes, I fully agree with your thought process. When I was in Crete I saw it in almost mathematical terms: the horns of consecration as a motif were present in some of the earliest and most rudimentary clay pottery found in Crete, and were absolutely overwhelming in their frequency in some places. This was a symbol they used in all sorts of places and occasions, be it in architecture, funerary rites and even daily tools. We can only speculate about its importance, but given how often it was used... I mean, it's plausible that they would have made many things using that shape, which just happens to be perfect for a lyre.

I'd put my money on someone, at some point, having made an instrument like this.

I plan on including this lyre in the game, in Chapter 20. I don't want to give spoilers but I can say that Asterion, like any artist, experimented across the centuries and built some lyre prototypes which haven't been shown in the chapters so far. And I plan on giving this lyre some history inside the game's story.

Incidentally: it will be really funny if at some point in the future someone discovers that the Minoans did make lyres like this and they look back on it being independently developed as a speculative exercise for a minotaur-fucking gay game. That will be one hell of a story.

After all, if the only trumpets one could buy were toy plastic trumpets, or trumpets made out of platinum-infused gold, who on earth would play the trumpet?

Let me just show you what's the situation here...

All those cheaper lyres use metal strings and my experience is that they just keep ringing for so long, it really muddles up the song, and they are often built in a way that you can't even play all the strings with both hands. My first lyre was one built in this style and I pretty much stopped playing after a few months because of how limited and unsatisfactory it felt.

This will be it for now, I've got to go back to writing. I might add some more later, but for now bye bye!

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lmao the lyre just arrived

Okay, so I’ve been working late, and I don’t quite have time to write anything just now. But I just couldn’t resist the coincidence. The lyre arriving *now*, of all times, is superb. How’s that for timing? :)

Your Seikilos Epitaph is legitimately impressive, by the way. And the guest appearance of the horse at the end of the sample track for the new lyre made me smile!

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Despite the construction work going on in the apartment above mine, I managed to record a bit.

My main lyre:


View on Vocaroo >>

The Luthieros lyre:


View on Vocaroo >>

The new, Minoan-esque lyre:


View on Vocaroo >>

(I played it a little differently in this one because my fingers got too sore from doing harmonics. You also might be able to hear a meow here and there, my cat wanted me to come out and play.)

Thanks so much for recording these! Especially with the construction work going on around you. Commiserations about that, by the way. I know that can be a *real* pain. Oh, and hello off-screen cat! *waves*

This is a really great way of demonstrating the differences between these instruments. It’s interesting making a comparison based just on sound, since that avoids any distractions based on the look of an instrument (which is obviously important, but it's nice to focus on sound). And the comparison is fascinating. You’re weren’t kidding. These three lyres sound remarkably different!

For what it’s worth, here are my thoughts, speaking as a professional musician who isn’t a string-player.

Main lyre:

I’ve already talked about this lyre before! Still, as a quick summary, this instrument has a gloriously rich tone, one that’s full of colour. And this richness extends throughout the range of the instrument. I really like the tone of this lyre. I could listen to it all day!

Luthieros lyre:

This is an interesting one. When I first listened to this recording, the tone of the instrument repelled me a little. The opening sounded a little off-putting. But the lyre’s tone grew on me the more I listened to it. Once I’d listened to the whole track, and gotten used to the instrument, nothing sounded particularly strange if I went back and listened to the opening again. On reflection, I don’t think that’s any fault of the lyre itself. I think what’s happening there is that this lyre is tuned slightly differently to your main lyre. I don’t mean that either was out of tune – just that they were tuned slightly differently compared to each other. That small difference in tuning was throwing me off, which was clouding my judgement a little!

But, that aside, the tone itself is interesting. There’s a significant difference between this and your main lyre, but I’m not sure quite how to describe what that is. The Luthieros lyre is definitely not as rich in tone as your main instrument. But there’s another quality there. The tone sounds slightly more fluid to me. It almost seems as if the strings are a little looser somehow, although I don’t think that’s how the physics works! My guess is that the individual notes might be slightly more resonant on this instrument? Perhaps the notes sound slightly longer, which is giving that fluid quality I’m hearing? Whatever the cause, the fluid quality of the notes works nicely in the faster-moving sections.

I was also struck by the tone across the range. Your main lyre has a fairly even tone, but this one has more variation. At least to my ears, I think it produces its best sounds in the middle register, but is perhaps a little lacking at higher pitches. Incidentally, without wishing to labour the point, it’s interesting to hear that my gut feeling about the resilience of these instruments wasn’t entirely unfounded!

If I were to use an analogy, the tone of your main lyre is like syrup, and the Lutherios lyre is like custard. It’s less rich, but flows a little more easily. In any case, while there is something nice about the fluidity, I very much prefer the overall richness of your main lyre!

New lyre:

Now this is something else altogether! I know this will partly be due to you playing a little differently, but there’s a gorgeous clarity of the sound here. The sound is so crisp and clear. It makes me think of cut glass. Or perhaps, to continue the food analogy, sugar-glazing!

From my perspective, this lyre combines a beautiful, crisp tone with some of the fluidity of the Luthieros lyre. So I guess, in a sense, it’s something of a middle-ground between your main lyre, and the Luthieros one. Also – and apologies if there’s a proper term here that I don’t know – I think the glissandi work particularly well on this instrument. While I was pretty impressed by the sample you posted above, this track has *really* impressed me. This lyre produces a very nice sound indeed!

And yet it’s small, and cheap! That’s just remarkable. I think the sound of this instrument compares very favourably to the Luthieros lyre. But it’s a fraction of the cost and, from the sounds of it, much, much more practical both to play and transport! Again, you weren’t kidding. This lyre really shouldn’t sound anything like this good. But, wow, doesn’t it just! You’ve made something super impressive here: a practical, affordable instrument that makes a wonderful sound. You have the evidence to prove it too! For my money, I get the impression this instrument would work particularly nicely in a small chamber setting (Asterion playing to Luke and Kota comes to mind).

If I saw a lyre of this price in a shop, and it produced a sound like this, I would *strongly* consider buying it! Very nicely done. I think you’ve done some really exciting here!

But, just to continue the comparison a little, I’ve now had time to have a listen to the videos you showed of the very cheap lyres. And ... okay, so they obviously weren’t going to be great, but I really see why you didn’t stick with an instrument like that. Wow. For me, the tone itself is off-putting. The metal strings produce a sound that’s pretty harsh, at least to my ears. That might work for some modern instruments, but I’m not sure it works well in this case. Surely the tone of a lyre should be much warmer than that? And, as you said, there’s a really serious problem with excessive resonance. The notes really bleed together, which must make complex songs almost impossible to play. It would be like playing Bach in a boomy bathroom – you’d just hear mush!

And here are a couple of quick other points on your last point. It’s great to hear that you’re going to be including your own playing in the game! I look forward to hearing it! I’m also quite pleased to hear of your plans for Asterion’s lyre experiments too. I think I may have mentioned this before but, given how important music is to him, it makes a whole lot of sense to me that Asterion would have done some experimenting with the lyre. Perhaps especially as he came across new ideas from visitors to the hotel. I’m guessing he might have gone in a bunch of different directions before coming up with something that he particularly liked. I’ll be really interested to see where you go with that!

Also, this, all the way:

Incidentally: it will be really funny if at some point in the future someone discovers that the Minoans did make lyres like this and they look back on it being independently developed as a speculative exercise for a minotaur-fucking gay game. That will be one hell of a story.

I’m having great fun imagining how journals would reference this. And thinking of carefully chosen snapshots from the Hotel featuring in lectures and seminars! :)

(Finally, my last few posts all mentioned that I wanted to reply sooner, but wasn’t able to. I think I jumped the gun there, because today I have the most absurd reason of all. I'm really, *really* not someone who likes bragging, but this one’s so incredibly unusual that I can’t quite resist. So: I couldn’t reply sooner this time because I was performing for my country’s King – in a room guarded by people wielding *actual, real-life pikes*. Pikes are way longer than I ever thought they’d be, by the way. This is why I like work in music, because you end up doing all sorts of crazy things. And no, I don’t do things like that every day!)

If you don't mind me asking, what in particular did you perform for the king and his pike-men? I'm not asking for a recording of you in particular, but I am just curious what it was you did.

Oh, sure! It was a ceremonial civic event, where a choir and organ provided music while the civic parties were waiting for the King to arrive, and later when the King performed various ceremonial duties. The music at royal occasions like these is usually sung by the King’s own musicians, but local musicians are deliberately brought in when the King is travelling outside the capital (to encourage arts throughout the country, I expect). And he seems to be doing a fair amount of travelling at the moment!

As is often the case for big civic ceremonies in my country, the vast majority of the music was sacred. And there was quite a lot of it; there were over 20 musical items in all! Quite a few well-known composers were featured, including Handel, Howells, Franck, Stanford, Mendelssohn, etc.. I probably shouldn’t go into too many specifics, to avoid identifying the particular event too closely, but that should give you a rough idea!

Having said that, though, we did sing the famous work below. It’s something that’s traditionally performed at royal occasions, and appears really quite frequently. I think the King gets it multiple times a week sometimes, so I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s quite bored of it by now!

I hunted down this particular recording because it has organ accompaniment, as opposed to an orchestra, which matches the performance I was involved in. But I also happen to know a few of the performers who worked on this disk, and they reliably inform me that this track was recorded as a single, continuous take. That’s pretty rare!

(Anyone who doesn’t know this piece, be sure to listen until at least 1:30 – the first choral opening in this work is especially dramatic, and is worth experiencing!)

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Hey, Sirius! It's been a while since we had any news about the game (we're working on that) but I was thinking about you recently, thinking back to our conversations about lyres and the songs you've posted here. So I got curious, how have you been doing lately?

Sadly Itch doesn't have a DM system so responding to an old comment is the best I can do. Maybe it'll take a while before you see this message but, hey, I'm looking forward to hearing from you!

Hey, Minoh! It seems my intuition is working well at the moment, because I caught this within a few hours, and before any notifications came up! I just had to get some sleep and a day’s work before being able to reply, haha.

It’s nice to hear that you’ve been thinking of me, and of our musical conversations! I’m doing well, thanks. I’ve had a few tricky things to get through this year, but I’ve come out at the other end alright, and I’m doing fine now. Good to hear that you’re still working away at the Hotel behind the scenes, of course!

I’m not sure if you wanted to talk privately or not. If you do, you can find me on various social media platforms under this name, but without the space (or the punctuation). Not every account under that name is me, but most are; look for a Charizard in the profile pictures! (I appreciate that's confusing. I didn't quite have the foresight to leave out the space when I made this account!)

I’m still working on historic music too! I haven’t seen too much ancient music since last year, sadly, but I have been doing a fair amount of work on English Renaissance pieces, many of which reference mythology. Some of myths featured aren’t too surprising: Venus and Adonis, Acis and Galatea, etc., but some are less well-known. For example, I've found a great unique madrigal about Pan, which is basically an excuse for the writer to make a stream of phallus jokes, wrapped up in high-brown literary language!

I’ve also come across references I don’t recognise, which might tantalisingly imply myths that have been lost in the past 500 years. Although in our time, it’s hard to judge the authenticity of these! And some of these require a bit of interpretation and guesswork to piece together.

For instance, there’s the story of a nereid/"sea-nymph", who loved a human fisherman called Dio. Dio would take his boat out on the ocean, and sail to her island home to meet her. On one occasion, the nereid was resting on the beach, waiting for Dio to arrive. But a fierce storm came up and wrecked his boat, and Dio drowned. For some reason that’s not clear, the nereid was unable to help – presumably that would have been made explicit in the original myth. As a result, the whole sea wept for the fisherman’s passing.

There’s also the tragedy of Phenitium’s Lover. The Lover receives a prophecy which states that Phenitium will forever be parted from them (or possibly murdered – it’s unclear), and that the Lover will be tormented by the furies thereafter. But the Lover loves Phenitium truly and honestly. It’s implied that this is some sort of manipulation on the part of the gods, a self-fulfilling prophecy designed to spite the Lover, but again the reasons for this are unclear. Interestingly, the gender of neither person is revealed (although the name Phenitium might imply a gender – my knowledge of language isn’t good enough to know for sure!).

It’s sobering to think sometimes of how much knowledge has been lost over the centuries!