Post by tehawesome in Gameplay Discussion

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The jellyfish-looking things that pop out of new holes and then fly down: it feels really cheap that spikes don't hurt them. Sometimes they appear so suddenly that I can't dodge to the side, and I've thought "well at least I have my spikes" then nope, they hit me and I lose all my spikes. Suuuuper frustrating. I'd feel less frustrated if they telegraphed their arrival sooner, or they moved more slowly.

And here's a random thought: I agree that the "last heart" noise is annoying, but it's serving an important purpose. Consider adding a new layer to the soundtrack instead? Something heartbeat-y? This is a completely unsolicited idea but warning noises are rarely not annoying. (The "you have 30 seconds left" alarm in Katamari Damacy struck me as surprisingly bad and that game came out like 10 years ago.)

I was surprised that tumbleweeds were an insta-kill. I discovered this with four spikes and three hearts, and that sudden death suuuuucked. (Roguelikes feel best when you feel like every death is a learning experience and not a cheap death, so I'm trying to share when a death feels "cheap.") If they were anything else that better telegraphed insta-death, (say, a giant boulder) I'd be less frustrated, but for now they look like big fluffy clouds that should do a heart's worth of damage and pop with one spike. Also: holy fuck there are so many tumbleweeds. Between them and the holes, more often than not it's about waiting a looong time time to see an opening, since most of the time they appear to be presenting an unwinnable configuration of tumbleweeds effin' up your business.

(I am loving the game so far, by the way. It can get difficult right out of the gate, and I appreciate that.)

benedictfritz8 years ago

Yeah their telegraph is quite subtle right now – there's a sound effect as well as a circle that alphas-in where they're gonna spawn. Agreed that thorns should kill them, though!

Consider adding a new layer to the soundtrack instead? Something heartbeat-y?

Interesting, I like this idea! Will bring it up with Joel!

I was surprised that tumbleweeds were an insta-kill

Yikes! Looking at the code they look like they should do 1 damage, so this might be a bug. Will investigate. In general, I personally am not a big fan of tumbleweeds, so, I hear ya.

Thanks for all the feedback, Hank!! Keep on tumblin in the free world!

dlask8 years ago (3 edits)

Tumbleweeds definitely aren't supposed to be instakill, sorry about that haha!

Part of me likes tumbleweeds as kind of this wall that you have to use your abilities and navigation skills to get avoid. I believe the way they're supposed to function is to only on the very bottom of them. This may speak to Mike's concern about 3D objects being hard to distinguish though...and while it's part of why I like and think it makes them different it can be confusing.

Maybe we try spawning single tumbleweeds that appear on their own throughtout the biome instead of focused dense sections? And maybe they only hurt you when they hit the ground/appear to land on you. Even typing this now I'm like brainstorming an almost frogger-like section or maybe challenge room that causes you to weave in and out of tumbleweeds. This could be extremely bad lol, but I think they have potential to create some interesting quick environment-reading opportunities for players and are a weird non-living entity that feel thematically nice to exist in the desert and could help create the identity of how one approaches and views the biome

tehawesome8 years ago

Yeah, the tumbleweeds, like the avalanche snowballs, are big objects that use a shadow to convey where you're in danger, right? And since I'm not sure where they're doing damage to me, I tend to avoid them WAY more than I need to. Like I only use avalanches when I can hide in a weave to the level design so snowballs won't hit me.

The tumbleweeds section is fun in theory, but I've gotten super frustrated when it's tumbleweeds AND a ton of holes AND I'm being shot at by something. Maybe a clearer hitbox will help! I'm down to test anything.

I like the Frogger-like analogy. Any sort of bonus room or stage layout that uses them like that would be fun.

Though I mentioned this in another thread: taking real damage in a bonus room completely discourages me from using the bonus rooms at all. Racing all the way up there just to carefully navigate down is kind of a chore. If you won, and you knew you could safely fall into a hole after winning the race, that'd feel more fair and fun. Like, I already spent 5 crystals. That's the risk: losing crystals. Adding damage / death makes it too much of a gamble. (Oh, and the the spring layouts look fun but they're super difficult so I don't bother.)

Kind of a tangent, but I just imagined a tumbleweeds bonus game and immediately thought "oh if I take real damage, though, I'll pass." I'm pushing myself to try bonus rooms more often, and taking damage is killing my enthusiasm. As soon as I get to a between-levels area, I go into money-management mode. Is the bank worth it? What's in the shop? Thinking "do i have enough health to justify trying a bonus race?" is the only time I think more about survival than planning ahead and it feels weird.

dlask8 years ago (1 edit)

I hear ya. I feel like the challenge rooms have the highest skill ceiling in the game right now (aside from just beating the game itself). The risk reward is so high- trusting yourself enough to engaged those systems and if you manage to bear them the rewards are a usually a huge payoff. Also, we've talked about adding more challenges in the game (whether in camps or otherwise). I like that there are challenges that push even the most skilled players to their limits, but maybe we need some other challenges sprinkled to give the harder ones context instead of all of them feeling like such an uphill battle.

That was kind of a rambling haha, but hopefully that makes sense? Curious to hear more about your (and others'!) experiences with the rooms. Do you favor one or the other or does one seem entirely less fair than the other out of the two that are in now

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