Firstly, that's correct that we have to persuade those other than ourselves of what's ethical in order to get those other than ourselves to act upon it. That's why I take part in discussions like this. If I called for banning too quickly it was because it seemed as clear as day to me that the scraping of massive amounts of copyrighted data on the internet isn't ethical, but we can talk about it more....
"If I understood correctly, you think it is unethical because permission was not asked in creation of the tool used, and thus, the works made with said tool should be banned."
Not exactly what I said but close. It is unethical because it assumes it is okay to use authored works in a way not explicitly permitted by the authors. Were there a way for artists to opt-out of having their works scraped, then there would be no issue in my mind. There would be no need to assume. Would you agree clear opt-in/opt-outs would be preferable to the current situation?
As for fan works and creations based off of existing ip, I would say it depends on how the original author feels about it. Though it may not be legal, I would guess (but could be wrong) that most are tolerant of fan works as long as it doesn't negatively affect their profitability. I mean, if you are receiving cease and desist orders then you know you are going too far...but if someone made a fan work of one of my ips, far from upset I would be flattered as long as it was in good faith.
Let's consider the reason why we even care about plagiarism and copyright in the first place. Tell me if you disagree, but is it not about preserving incentives? If someone can plagiarize an artist's work then the incentive to create original work dissipates. Everyone loses. That is the point of ip, isn't it?
It's why the wishes of the artists matter. Person A says "Go ahead and use my work in your training sets" I take that to mean, "My incentive to create original work won't be affected if you do that." Person B says "Don't use my work in your training sets". I take that to mean, "My incentive to create original work would be hurt if you do that." So why not listen to them? I don't understand the argument *against* considering the wishes of artists. Educate me. There is a way to go about this that balances the interests of both sides, for the technology to proceed along without stepping hard on (literally, because scraping is indiscriminate) everyone's toes. But I'm not seeing in what you've written indication that you are concerned about preserving the incentive for artists to create, which is the reason copyright and ip exists in the first place, am I wrong?