[Sees new game] *VIBRATES INTENSELY* 0w0 What perfect timing!
Yanno, I can easily see this spin-off being part of the "Our Wonderland" canon, especially for the timeline where Iggy passes by Orlam's open bedroom door, showing his now dead-corpse (courtesy of Genzou). I always did wonder about the details behind that CG scene, and this spin-off helps with that!
I appreciate the detail of how the spin-off has Orlam bleed out on the floor (and Genzou crying over him... *Bawls*), to the main game revealing Orlam's body being on the cozier bed. *I* would like to imagine that Genzou moved Orlam to the bed, out of a mixture of guilt and respect for what he's gone through. Given "Save the Last Dance's" menu image for Ending 2... yeah, Genzou be... 😢
I love reading about messy relationships like Orlam's and Genzou's--especially when there's mutual damage from both parties being just so emotionally immature -- especially damage done from naive childhood up to self-absorbed adolescence. At those ages, you especially can't help prevent it as much due to still lacking a lot of knowledge on yourself and how the world works.
NGL, I see traces of myself in both Orlam and Genzou. Orlam reflects a slow realization of what healthy boundaries are (ie. when it's time to stop pining or trying to force a relationship to "work") and the over-consuming resentment and self-loathing that can follow such epiphanies. Genzou reflects not fully realizing the impact you have on others, because you're still only aware of what's important to you (eg. quality time with your favorite person, even if means pushing others out of your way--sometimes quite literally, lol. Poor Orlam...).
Although Gidget/Ghent didn't appear in this game, I get the feeling they're the most perceptive of the group's hidden dynamics (Iggy is about to surpass them though--HUE HUE HUE--given how much he's grown in the main game~).
But yeah, the prom night scene where Gidget suggests that Orlam should check-on Genzou sticks with me. While I know Gidget only did it for quality time with Iggy (fair enough), part of me still read Gidget's suggestion as clever, if slightly manipulative? 🤔 To be fair, Gidget probably hoped the two boys would lick each other's wounds & happily pair-off eventually (cue sunset and fireworks)...and not for them to experience the WORST PROM NIGHT EVER. Oof. 😅
ANYWAY...for a game with many game jam constrictions, "Save the Last Dance" was a delightful read!
For a 1000 word limit, the plot still feels tight and complete, with just enough detail for newbie players to infer the kind of mess between Orlam, Genzou, and the off-screen "white rabbit" Iggy (lol). The characters also still sounded like themselves in this spin-off (Orlam, my over-read arse loves how you speak... and the f*cking banter between these two!!! MMPH.). Overall, I felt you showcased your resourcefulness in conveying many different kinds of information within the word-limit you had.
The kind of plot you chose fits well with the number of artwork you had; I never felt more artwork was needed. (The menu interface changing for each Ending Route was also a lovely touch! Poor Genzou...). I felt the choice of music was also fitting and never intruded upon the game's overall mood and important dialogue, IMO.
For me, the experimental text effects weren't overdone or too intrusive to the reading experience. In fact, I was delighted to see effects I didn't even know were possible! 🤣Besides 1st/2nd-Person POV, I can see the text effects being good for epistolary elements eg. letter exchanges, mysterious journal entries, "possessed" text messages, etc. I'll be curious to see what more you do with it!
I personally liked the dancing effect of this game (and of COURSE, fancy King!Orlam would know how to waltz his partner around... I freaking love that). I'll be curious to see if you do anymore movement animation the future especially if used for the more surprising, hard-hitting, purposefully-disorienting scenes if strategically placed...? Dunno the amount of work you'd have to put in tho. 🤔
All in all, I'm so glad you made another game!
I AM JUST SO FRICKING HAPPY--YOU HAVE NO IDEA~ 🤩 AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!
[It's happy screams, not angry ones like Orlam's, I swear LOL]
Still impressive, as I saw you in OW's comment area, with such a long and thoughtful comment, friend. 🤣
It's interesting for we sharing the same idea about Genzou's reason for crying, cuz like an early comment below by other people, Genzou's crying could be truly complicated.
Yep, dear Genzou truly wasn't fully realizing the impact he cause, which leads to the four Arc's suffering he had. I have to say I'm actually kind of tempted to counter your assertion that Genzou is "only aware of what's important to you", since he probably only does it because he gets a kick out of bullying Orlam... Well, kind of asshole.
Which scene is "the prom night scene" by the way,, I can't remember fully, the part in Arc4 where Gidget dances with Iggy in Wonderland? The way I feel about that part, Gidget totally wants to be with Iggy, probably no "hope they lick each other's wounds", cuz that time she's twisted and nothing else mattered, . Just my feeling.
But having said that, I'm actually more concerned about the recollection of the bouncy castle in Arc4, where it's pretty obvious Gidget is telling Orlam to go to Genzou and telling Orlam that Genzou needs his help (and probably says something about how Genzou's demonstrated lack of need for Orlam is just him being shy, or something like that). I think this corresponds to Iggy's questioning from the vision in Arc2 or whichever Arc it was - the vision where "Genzou" questions Iggy about why he left Genzou behind and why he ran away from Genzou when Genzou need him, and why Genzou come in such a situation that he had no choice but to rely on Orlam's help.
Obviously Gidget means well, but I think her persuasion was an effective element caused the complex issues between the two boys or even among all of them. It's certainly not Gidget's fault, it's, it's kind of unspeakable fault among some of (or even all of) them, and I would say that if Genzou had been able to reflect on himself, if Orlam had been able to muster up the courage to persuade Genzou or at least to leave his side, and if Iggy had been able to stop Genzou instead of following along with the jokes, maybe it would have turned out better. But it's complicated, and the "what ifs" are hard to realize..
Yo, fellow fan! Nice to see ya again~! Love how we keep meeting up like this, lmao. (Side-note: I totally LOVE your icon of Iggy and Genzou kissing... YES, A FELLOW COMRADE IN OTPs!!! 🤝)
Ah, to clarify what I meant by "only aware of what's important to you"... I think we actually are agreeing upon the same thing? When I wrote that, it does imply that Genzou IS the occasional asshole because he's too focused on his emotional priorities to imagine things from Orlam's POV. (Or if he ever does, it's likely done in bad faith to end as the butt of some joke.). Genzou probably wrote Orlam off as just a one-dimensional "loser", and forgot that Orlam is just a messy human being like Genzou is, with his own share of very real, very valid feelings. It's so human to assign people as the Other and feel very self-justified for it--and yes, Orlam is no "angel" (cannibalism, anyone?) but Genzou's reactions to this can real disproportionate, real fast... oof.
The fact you brought up how Iggy sheepishly went along Genzou's antics also brings up a good point. Since none of Genzou's friends ever really went against his bullying in the past, he likely experienced hard whiplash: it's only after all these years that his bullying is now seen as a "problem". [Cue his likely internal eye-rolling, at first]. And like you said earlier, "it's complicated, and the "what ifs" are hard to realize" given all of the underlying in-fighting and insecurities within all of the characters. Combined altogether, they friendship is like a chemical reaction that can synergize well...or explode when shaken too hard.
But hey, the fact that Genzou somehow still keeps his temper when Iggy calls him out at least hints at something. Hopefully Genzou, like Iggy, can take his knowledge of multiple timelines and use them for Character Development. They're probably both kicking themselves over all of the "mistakes" they made in all their timelines. Oof, normal humans already struggle with self-loathing/trauma in the one known timeline they already have (makes me rethink about wanting to be conscious of my multiverses, LOL).
Regardless, what's done is done. Although some past actions cannot be made up for or easily forgiven (as "Save the Last Dance" illustrates when Genzou asks Orlam if there's anything he can do to fix things now) ... Genzou can at least do the Right Thing for it's own sake. Not to impress others. Not to earn forgiveness, or to clean his conscience.
Just doing the Right Thing, just because.
The fact that Genzou is capable of feeling guilt, shock, and tenderness (esp. in not expecting Iggy to do anything he's uncomfortable with) at least gives Genzou some foundation of finding a fresh direction. Orlam and Genzou don't have to be BFFs understandably, but I imagine it'd be healthier for both of them if they could find other things & people to focus on instead of...each other. Intense hatred is just the twin to intense love. 😅
If my memory is not utter shite, the "prom night scene" I mentioned had Gidget "redirect" Orlam with a follow-up scene showing Gidget sitting with Iggy on the gym bleachers to talk. It's when Iggy's careless words about Gidget's beauty that leads into their perfectionist streak of becoming the "perfect angel" starts, even if it means suppressing their genuine self (oof).
Now that I think of it...
Outside of the surreal/gore elements that make "Our Wonderland" a horror game, I feel like it's a horror game in the sense that the world of relationships can be horrifying. Ah yeah, the horrifying of ordeal Being Known and knowing others...
For instance, you have no real idea if what you just said--even with the best of intentions--ends up seriously f*cking somebody years down the road (eg. Gidget, Bucks); or, if a certain action you chose will truly be good for you or the person you're doing it for (eg. Genzou, Orlam). The fact that you can also be doing something wrong for years and not realize it yourself (like Genzou's bullying or Iggy's habit of closing himself off from others) is also mortifying.
I like how all of the characters' backgrounds indirectly helps the story highlight that theme, cause being part of any social minority (eg. being LGBTQIA+, disabled, mental health, eetc.) adds another layer to relationships feeling "scary."
It's real easy to get suck into a muck of constant ruminating over one's mistakes, or to feel like giving up after every "mistake" follows your every attempt to make things better (ah, Iggy... how you try).
But, I'm glad The Wonderland isn't giving Iggy the option to give up--cause you can only improve at relationships by throwing yourself back into them. Feel your feels, feel other people's feelings, and just keep doing your best from there.
...Relationships. Are. Messy. 'Nuff said. They're messy, but they're one of the few things in the world that'll pull you out of the dark pit that comes with being human + yourself, sometimes. Humans are social creatures, and we all just have to muddle our way through the dark together the best that we can.
At least, that's the kind of message I get from playing this game thus far. I imagine other people's interpretations will be different, and that's okay too! I'd be curious to see what others take away from the storyline~ :3 Any thoughts you have thus far, or are you waiting for the whole game to finish before you let yourself loose? :D
I like discussing these sort of ideas with you!!! Thank you for giving me this chance by sending me your awesome comment! (^o^)/ <3
True, what's done is done. I just hope they will get their own happy endings at the true end of this story. It's after all, twenty years' knowing each other among them (The first time they get into Wonderland, Iggy was 11, and when OW happened, Iggy was 31), and while it's probably true that they haven't been together for about ten of those years, but how many of us, can get to have a period of companionship in our lives that lasts more than ten years?
By the way, I do know we share the same opinion about your "only aware of what's important to you" with high probability. It's that I want to add some my own addtion, Perhaps. Though I choose the word "counter", my fault...
About Gidget, you remind me of an ask someone anonymously sent to Carrot on Tumblr.
I do think this is an interesting perspective, cuz after playing all existing Arcs, we do know that Gidget has always been about not wanting to be seen as a "normal girl", so this ask I think fleshes out what Gidget is about.
Of course Cecil didn't have to be created by Wonderland "in response to Gidget's heart's desire"; he could have existed in the first place, and it's his respect for Gidget's "true self" that makes him the person who is there for Gidget, and the direct cause of her awakening.
It's truly a pleasure to talk to a friend like you who also enjoys OW and has deep thoughts about it!🤝
We'll both keep our fingers-crossed that all of the friends manage to reach their own happy endings! And it's true, how rare is it to have a period of companionship that actually lasts 10+ years... wow. Thank god somebody here (aka. You) keeps good track of details cause I forgotten how much time actually gets covered throughout OW, given all the flashbacks and timeline-skips.
Thank you so much for showing me that screencap of Carrot's tumblr! Honestly didn't even know it existed, and now I can enjoy some Behind The Scenes commentary possibly! Hooray!
Yanno, a lot of what the screenshot said aligns with my own headcanon behind Cecil's origins and role in the story. (God, I miss him already... *sniffle*). Speaking only from my experience as somebody non-binary, it's real easy to develop an image in one's head of how you'd ideally like to become/look like, gender-wise--and try to work closer and closer on getting there. #GenderGoals and all that. The fact that Cecil emerged almost as a sort of guardian/conscience to Gidget is real sweet, even as Gidget tried to ignore his guidance--to the point of even locking Cecil (their true selves) away in the darkest corner of the mansion-subconscious. I'm so glad that Gidget's friends helped them remember and come to terms with their true self, again.
NGL, part of me initially hoped Cecil could serve as a possible love-interest for Gidget since Iggy certainly has eyes for Genzou. BUT, I would say Self-Love is ultimately the most important for Gidget's story-arc cause for most of their life, they tried to contort themselves into an fake/rigid identity for others' approval, whether it was for their mother or for Iggy. And I must admit, Gidget's "perfectionist" streak was something I struggled with too while growing up.
If Gidget does make it alive and back into the real-world (please let them survive), at least they have supportive friends (and possibly their cool-sounding father) to support them REGARDLESS of what the mother or bigots possibly think.
LKJDLFAKSDA YOU ALWAYS LEAVE SUCH LONG AND DETAILED COMMENTS I feel so spoiled... 😭💕 I love reading them so much!! Honestly like, people analyzing all the various parts of my stories and characters gives me so much joy. Especially when people discover things I wasn't even aware of that were there or find connections I didn't even meant to put in there LMAO Thank you so much for playing and for all your support and all your lovely words!!
IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE THAT EXACT SCENE LOLOL I realize I didn't actually write it here on this game page, only mentioned it in a Tweet, but that is indeed my goal for this! Since O2A2 is so restrictive, I knew it could only be one scene, and I knew I wanted to do a little something with Orlam since I did the Genzou + Iggy story for the last O2A2 Jam, and then I was like... ohhHHHHHH. Maybe I could revisit that scene that I had always wanted to explore more to begin with but didn't have any way to do so because of the main game POV! Thus, this was born. I do realize tho that there might be some tiny discrepancies, since when I developed Arc 2 almost a year and a half ago (my god...) I hadn't thought I would ever revisit it and so didn't include that much detail and also just kinda whipped the CG together (so the room and colors, etc., are also a bit different...). So players are free to interpret the differences however they want and/or try to rectify them in their minds LOL 🤣 I quite like that idea you posited tho -- like Genzou couldn't bear to leave him on the ground like that so moved him to the bed... *sigh* I shall weep perhaps...
Indeed, though, these two really have quite possibly the messiest, most complicated, most unhealthy relationship ever -- which is probably why I enjoy exploring it so much, despite the way in which is breaks my heart constantly. I do so love a convoluted messy relationship LOL And you make so many good points -- both in Orlam inability to pull his heart away from Genzou despite everything Genzou has done (and subsequently, not being able to get past what happened, to the point that his life has become an utter wreck) and then ofc Genzou, who... well... there's a whole lot of inner reasons why he did what he did (some of which will be explored a bit in the rest of Arc 5) but at the end of the day, most of it was straight up awful. And yet somehow despite how awful they are for and to each other, they keep revolving around each other because also neither one of them know how to move past things or make things right again or even attempt to make things somewhat ok. So they just keep up this back-and-forth dance that keeps them both feeling miserable and not able to find happiness somewhere else.
Or something.
I was kinda just rambling there a bit, also because I don't wanna give away all that much yet but also my feelings on them are as jumbled as their relationship LOL At any rate, I really enjoyed reading all your thoughts about them!
THANK YOU FOR ALL THE LOVELY WORDS ABOUT THE GAME THO kjadkfa I always worry with these tiny little one-shot games if they'll leave people feeling unsatisfied because there's only so much I can do. So I'm glad to hear it was still enjoyable 🥺
"Orlam, my over-read arse loves how you speak" --> LDKJFALSDKFJASLKDAJ
And LOL I'm glad the text effects weren't too much!! It was my first time using them and I perhaps had a bit too much fun, so then I got a bit worried maybe it felt overwhelming. Re: the movement/animation, I'm unsure if I'll do something quite like this again at least in the near future. Mostly because for the main game the way I make and use backgrounds is quite different -- for this little game I drew it myself specifically for this purpose, but it took me forever to do alkdjfa In the main game I do heavily filtered photos as I need a gajillion. So I don't know if I'd be able to do much with moving BGs, at least. Though I have been doing a lot more with sprite movement and various things that'll be coming up in the next Arc 5 part!
AT ANY RATE THANK YOU VERY MUCH!! This was such a delight to read!! I love love LOVE hearing people's takes on a lot of this stuff and my chars in general -- it really makes my day! Thank you for playing and for all the time spent writing this up and for wanting to share it all with me! It really means so much!! 😭💕