Heya! Some friends of mine and I recorded ourselves playing your beta demo at one point. I wanted to check if you would be alright with us uploading it to YouTube. I'm looking forward to your next build!
Also if you do not want us to upload a playthrough, I understand and will respect your wishes.
Good luck with everything you are working on!
Spoilers
There are two big theories that I've seen.
1. The first is that the author is TJ. This theory posits that TJ feels guilt over what happened to Sydney and had been creating the notes and hiding them on his own. He is the one to know where all notes are located, examples of this being that it was mentioned that he can move silently through the old school house, and knew where the note was hidden in Sydney's old room. The main issue with the theory is that TJ is not the type to break and enter, commit crimes to hide these notes, and seems to not know what the notes are going to say at times.
2. The other theory is that Sydney is possessing TJ and influencing him to create and hide the notes. Either way TJ is physically hiding the notes, but his is pushed by Sydney to do so. This would also explain the antagonistic aspects of the notes regarding Chase, since TJ does like Chase and wouldn't likely be pointing out Chase killed Sydney, since he did so to protect TJ.
Neither theory explains everything, but most likely TJ was somehow involved.
Chronologically it is the following:
The Smoke Room-1915
Route 65-2008
Echo-2015
Arches-2020
However if you are looking for an order to read the story in I recommend starting with Echo and slipping Route 65 in the middle of your echo playthrough. After you are done with Echo you should be good to go with Arches or the Smoke Room as both of these are still in development, while Echo and Route 65 are completed. I highly recommend following the release order, but following Chronology can also be a good way to go if you are alright with The Smoke Room not being finished yet. Read however feels right to you!
I'm in full agreement with this recommendation!
I actually only got into the Echo project games around July when Arches was in Build 2, but it was the game that hooked me on the concept of Echo.
I went into Arches with no prior expectations, so the opening blew me away and made me so curious as to what would happen next. It is really interesting to see the town of Echo in the aftermath of whatever happened in the game Echo, and wonder... What happened?
I then went back to Echo (the game this time) and checked it out and enjoyed it thoroughly, but Arches still has my highest hopes and expectations and IMO still works as a good jumping off point.
However if you prefer there are a couple of other options for how to play the games:
1. Chronologically (In Universe): Start with The Smoke Room (TSR), go on to Echo, and end with Arches. I wouldn't really recommend this as both TSR and Arches are in development so this will be jarring jumping from the middle of TSR into Echo with no clear path to explain how one leads into the other yet (though I assume it will clear up as development progresses). Another issue with this is that both Arches and TSR expect you to have read Echo and mention some items that lead into speculation about how everything ties together.
2. Chronologically (In Real Life): Start with Echo and get a decent baseline for what can occur in these stories. You can supplement it with Route 65 (Highly recommended after Leo's route in Echo) and Benefits, both of which are short reads. From there you can go on to either Arches or TSR, though it is worth mentioning that TSR has a lot more content due to being further along in development. Both are interesting as they both act as sequels to the game of Echo, but act as prequels (TSR) or sequels (Arches) to the events that occur in the game.
3. Reverse Chronology (In Universe): I accidentally played this way, but it works really well to build up suspense and raise the tension of the mystery. In Arches you see the aftermath of whatever happened in Echo and wonder what possibly could have happened. In my playthough of Echo I could only wonder how this small town leads to the horrors I saw in Arches as I went through the everyday lives of Chase and his friends. And then the horror in Echo hits and it starts to explain some of the horrors that Dev and Cam go through in Arches. After completing Echo and Route 65, I moved back to TSR and have enjoyed seeing how the seeds of what happened in Echo and Arches were laid over 100 years ago and see how things could have shaken out differently.
TLDR: I totally agree with Drago, but hey it's fun to think of different reading orders for these novels, kinda like Star Wars watch orders. :)
So there are a few things that might be spoilers if you haven't finished the game yet, so I'll answer as spoiler free first and then spoilers afterward.
When Chase condemns Flynn don't forget that you were only given the one choice to condemn Flynn. This occurs no matter what previous choices you made on the route and it stands out. Keep also in mind the weird moment previously where Chase was hiding in the bathroom and the point of view shifted. As for Chase being a manipulative bastard/having a moment... People like to argue about that. My stance is Chase wasn't really himself at that moment, but I understand why people would think he is a manipulative bastard.
SPOILERS
It is sort of revealed throughout Flynn's route, but heavily explained in Jenna's route, that Chase was possessed by a spirit that is sort of Sam from The Smoke Room (I say sort of cause it gets complicated what exactly it is). Jenna's route further explains that whenever Chase is indecisive (Which he frequently is) Sam would step in and make the choice for him (with us essentially acting as Sam by making the choice). This also means that the choices presented are not fully Chase's but options given to him by Sam/the Player. What Chase does after a choice is made is somewhat his own actions, but its hard to say how much of Chase's actions are really his own due to the possession.
It's been a bit since I played the game through in its entirety, but I remember taking a couple of weeks reading it for between 2-4 hours a night. I would say there is at least 30 hours worth of reading material, though its probably close to 40 if you play all routes and try to get all the endings.
Going through one route though should take between 8-10 hours, with subsequent playthroughs being shorter as you can skip over the first 2.5 days, until you reach the point the story initially branches.
Thanks! I'm really glad that you like my theory!
Also I'm new to the comments section for itch.io as well, so I've been trying my best to learn how it works.
Honestly I adore Route 65, as it is what made me like Chase (mainly cause he seems like such a literary nerd in Route 65). It is interesting how it acts as a branching point for what happens to the group as they move forward towards Echo.
I like the idea of what 'really' happened with the group of friends. This theory kinda reminds me of the difference between Higurashi no Naku Koro ni (Higurashi) versus Umineko no Naku Koro ni (Umineko), both are great horror games by the way. These are both stories that appear to loop, however, the cause of the loop and if they actually looped is different. Higurashi repeats the summer of 1983 over and over again and the goal of one the characters is to stop the loop they are stuck in. All loops are equally likely, but they are looking for the 'best' loop where everyone gets a happy ending. Umineko on the other hand shows a series of events in early October of 1986, with two characters arguing over if what happened was due to the supernatural or not. What is interesting about Umineko is that another character joins later from the future, which means there was a definitive set of events that happened and its up to the audience to deduce it based on what they are shown in all the loops.
I think your theory is another good way to look at the story, especially as an alternate to the branching timeline theory I posed. There are some things that are consistent in multiple routes and it brings up the question of why? For example, Duke is found dead in Chase's car in both Leo and Flynn's routes, but SPOILERS [Duke is alive and still an asshole in Arches Build 3].
If we look at it with the one true set of events theory, then Duke being found dead in Chase's car could not have happened. We are also then able to deduce the epilogues for Leo, TJ and Flynn's routes are not part of the true set of events, but aspects of each might be. For example, we see that Kudzu and Micha exists still in town, outside of their respective routes (seen in Flynn's route) so they are a part of the true set of events though it may be different from what we have seen. Another example is that Flynn's aunt is killed in Flynn's route and hinted to have died in Jenna's, plus Leo's route mentions a body count of about 9 people (Likely including Mayor Moore). We also see Duke always tries to accuse Chase of being the cause of the Hysteria in every route (aside from TJ's where the Hysteria doesn't fully set in), so we can assume that Duke definitely targeted Chase.
I think it is fun to look at the game through both theories. The branching timeline theory helps to explain some of the issues/differences that occur between routes, while the one true route theory can be used to deduce what would occur in all routes (even when we are not shown them on that route). At the end of the day, my theory is just that, a theory, so your ideas have just as much weight.
Also I highly recommend Arches and TSR now as they both have been fun to play through with what is currently there, but I understand the preference to wait till its finished.
There are ‘good’ endings depending on which route you are on. It really depends on what you define as good if the ending will be good or not.
I’m curious as to which ending broke your heart. I have a few guesses but I don’t want to ruin any of the routes for you.
Spoilers
Typically most people agree that one of the endings of Jenna’s route is good, though it’s not a perfect ending for everyone in story.
Thanks! I'm glad you like my explanations. Since I've written them, I've gotten to play The Smoke Room, Build 17, and Arches, Build 3, so they have developed further and changed slightly.
Spoilers!
Long Post incoming so be prepared :)
I half agree with Flynn not going through time, but this is due to what is revealed in Jenna's route. Flynn/the spirit of Sam possessing Flynn become the Red Socket Faced creature (RSF from here out) at the end of Flynn's route and they jump around to witness and interact with multiple events. Based on what we see in the game, the RSF shows up in Leo's, Flynn's and Jenna's routes, with us seeing its perspective in Flynn's route. This leads me to believe that the RSF tapped into whatever powers the Hysteria/Hum of Echo and jumps not only through time but alternate universes. The RSF was created only at the end of Flynn's route but knocks the group into the lake for both Leo and Flynn's routes (Before it was created) and was seen throughout people's childhood (TJ mentions it in Flynn's route and Jenna's route mentions multiple people saw RSF during childhood). It is also heavily hinted that the RSF in the other routes is the same as the one created in Flynn's route, as in Jenna's route the RSF is heavily protective of Jenna and for some reason Flynn never sees it in Jenna's route, with it disappearing whenever Flynn is actively with the group. I think that the reason why the RSF was created at the end of Flynn's route is due to three things. One, Flynn's need to know what happened to Sydney at the cost of everything good in his life (ex: Carl and Dax), Two, the spirit/simulation of Sam's belief that Echo needs secrets and him trying to push Flynn into creating more turmoil (Ex: The Condemn Chase scene), and Three, whatever powers the Hysteria/Hum appears to feed off of negative emotions/thoughts and uses the RSF as a source to feed from. The RSF is not fully in control of where it gets taken, as we see from it's perspective in Flynn's route, and was initially taken to multiple events filled with misery and negativity. Eventually the Flynn part of the RSF was worn down and barely giving input anymore when they were finally taken to the day Sydney drowned. Once there the RSF's eyesight was stolen from it just in time to deny Flynn to see what he desired to know most, leaving him miserable and filled with negative emotions (which the Hysteria/Hum would love).
As for my Route 65 timeline theory, funnily enough the Smoke Room and Arches also now kinda fit into it as well. Looking at the Echo Universe Timeline we assume that it branches with the choice that Chase makes at the river in 2015 of which friend he follows, however, both Flynn and Jenna's routes reveal that Chase's past is different as they are continuations of what occurred in Route 65. Route 65 appears to be the initial timeline split for Chase, when he decides who he comes out to first. What we see in Echo for Saturday through Monday when the group goes to the river, isn't the same timeline, but instead 4/5 parallel timelines that overlapped for that brief period and then split back off from each other. We see in every route that Chase is slightly different and that is likely due to him being closer to certain people after coming out to them first. For Carl's route, Chase uses more swear words and is a bit more playful with Carl, TJ's route Chase is the only one to get possessed by the 'Mirror Ghost' and is also the only one to admit to killing Sydney while all other Chases appear to not remember, Flynn's route Chase is more aggressive and pursues multiple opportunities to be with Flynn as well as call Flynn out on things while other Chases tend to be more reserved with Flynn, and Jenna's route Chase mentions having spent time with Jenna after he came out to her by reading manga with her and having deep conversations, however, in all other routes Chase is noted to have basically ignored all his friends after dating Leo. The other friends in the group appear to be slightly different based on the route, for example: Flynn is obsessed with Sydney to the point to sacrificing his life in his own route, while he lets it go in Jenna's route or TJ in his own route never mentions the RSF and instead leads the group's scavenger hunt to reveal Chase is Sydney's killer, however, in Flynn's route TJ is more focused on the RSF and barely even mentions seeing 'two brown bodies' in the water. All of this makes me question if the timeline split for the group starts with Route 65 or if instead it happened before they were even born, and each route is just a parallel version of the group.
I bring this up as The Smoke Room varies a great deal based on who's route you are on. While the game isn't finished it is unlikely each route is going to converge towards one ending, meaning that there is another timeline split in 1915. Arches also fits into this as Cameron and Devon are shown in the Epilogues of Leo, TJ and Flynn's routes. However, in all routes there are details showing that they cannot be the Cameron and Devon we see in Arches. Leo's Cameron and Devon are in Echo in 2017, while Arches takes place in 2020, TJ's Cameron and Devon mention the Hysteria taking place in 2017, while Arches states it happened in 2015, and Flynn's Cameron and Devon are in college working on a project, when Arches has Cameron and Devon at age 25 and firmly being out of college for at least 3 years. This shows that those routes not only are following a different timeline than Arches but that Cameron and Devon's age is also different dependent on the route/branch of the timeline we are following.
TLDR: I think that Echo's universe is following a massively branching timeline where multiple branches run parallel to one another for a good chunk of time before they diverge off from each other again. Thanks for reading my Thesis on Echo's timeline! :)
From what I can tell there are a few issues where the wiki is either outdated or has slightly incorrect information. I assume that the wiki was written before Jenna's route was finished. In the final game when given the choice of saying I'm Gay or I'm Bi, Chase will elaborate that he prefers male partners and that his sexuality is complicated to him. In either choice Chase will mention to himself that he is actually Bi, and that he typically just says he is Gay to avoid having to explain it or confuse people.
Also the only way to initiate romance with Jenna is to say that you are Bi when given that choice, otherwise the romantic scenes are replaced with their friendship counterparts.
The events of Echo take place during Spring break of 2015 (So likely mid March). I mention this as some people's ages could be affected if they had an early birthday.
Chase is 21 years old, and in the events of Route 65 he is 15 during November 1st, 2008. It is likely Chase has a birthday between Late April and November and was born in 1993. (The wiki says he is 22, but that conflicts with him stating that he is 21 in a few scenes and some stuff Carl says)
Leo is 23 years old, and I believe that there was a scene where it was mentioned that he chose to celebrate Carl's birthday on Wednesday as Carl's is the closest, with Leo's already having passed and been a month prior. If this is correct, Leo was born in either January or February of 1991.
Jenna's age is not stated outright, but when the group was in school together, she was a year above Chase and year below Leo. She is likely 22 or 23 during the events of Echo. I can't make a guess as to what month she was born, but it likely is later in the year and not in March or April and was born in either 1992 or 1993.
TJ, baby of the group, is 19 years old. He is stated to be 2 years younger than Chase and is finishing up his first year of College when the game takes place. This is also brought up in Route 65, where TJ is only 13 years old. He was likely born in 1995, though he could be a 1996 baby instead.
Flynn is the oldest member of the gang and is 25 years old. This is reinforced with the events of Route 65 with Flynn already working with his Aunt and not being in High School, most likely having graduated in 2007. Depending on what month he was born, Flynn was born in either 1990 or 1989.
Carl is the only member who birthday is relatively set, being around late April (stated to be the end of next month, so this assumes the game takes place in mid March). Most likely Carl was born late April of 1993, however there are a few conflicting details. According to the wiki Carl is 21, however, there is a scene where Carl mentions that he cannot legally drink alcohol yet. This also conflicts with Carl being Chase's age, as being 20 would make Carl a year younger than Chase and likely put him in a grade lower. In Route 65, Carl mentions looking forward to driving, which would happen next year if he was 15 in 2008.
MINOR SPOILERS for the next Person
Sydney was shown to be either Chase and Carl's age, or a year younger than them, meaning he was likely born in 1993 or 1994, depending on when his birthday was. While I cannot give you an exact month for his birth, I can give an approximation for his death. In Route 65 it is mentioned by Chase that the group had to go back to school after Sydney's funeral. As they had been swimming in Lake Emma it is likely that Sydney drowned in Early to mid August of 2003. This would also match with the information that his father died 6 months prior on a hunting trip. When we are shown the hunting trip, it is described as a colder time of the year and Sydney and his father have to put on warmer coats. Mr. Bronson likely died in February of 2003.
If I have anything wrong, let me know and I'll fix this post! Also feel free to check the wiki, but beware of spoilers: Echo (Visual Novel) | Echo Project Wiki | Fandom
I don't know of any guides that are completely spoiler free, but I will try my best to make one here.
The text on the actual choices has been altered to be as spoiler free as possible.
Of the five routes only Carl, Leo and Jenna have multiple endings.
Carl's branches with the choice of fight it/Let it in. Let it in leads to a Bad ending (This branch is fairly long and provides an alternate set of events from the good ending), while Fight it leads to another choice, Grab her/Push her. If you chose Grab her you get another bad ending (Albeit a fairly short one), while Push her leads to the good ending.
Leo's route branch's first at Help him/Grab gun. Choosing Help him leads to a bad ending (Ending relatively quickly after making this choice), while Grab gun leads to the next choice It's Over/Work it out. It's Over leads to the good ending, while Work it out leads to the bad ending (But I recommend checking both as it's rather short and really impactful).
There is a question in the Prolouge that determines if Jenna's Route will include a romance or not. Your options are Yes I'm gay (No Romance)/No I'm bi (Romance). Jenna's route branches with the options I don't know how to answer that/We kept each other sane/This town breaks people. The first two choices lead to the good ending, while This town breaks people leads to the bad ending. I should mention that all three choices affect some scenes later on, but there are only two endings that I know of.
If there are any other endings that I missed, I will try to add them.
A common route order I see is the following:
Carl, Leo, Route 65, TJ, Flynn and end on Jenna.
I used this order myself and enjoyed it. This is also the order everything came out in from my understanding.
You can tweak the order a bit, like doing Leo first or swapping around TJ and Flynn, but I suggest that you save TJ and Flynn for your 3rd and 4th playthroughs and do Jenna last.
Route 65 is a prequel to Echo with the same cast, but it should be played after you do Leo’s route for maximum emotional impact in my opinion.
After you finish Echo you should be good to go with Arches (Sequel) or The Smoke Room (Prequel). You should probably finish Echo first before going to either of these, but I was introduced to the series with Build 2 of Arches and don’t feel like too much was spoiled.
Here is the timeline you asked for as well:
Echo takes place during Spring Break of 2015 (Mid to late March).
Route 65 is a prequel to Echo with the same cast set on November 1st, 2008, when the cast is in High School.
Arches is a sequel with a new cast of characters that takes place after the events of Echo in 2020, at some point before Lockdown (Likely February or Early March).
The Smoke Room is a prequel with its own cast set in the town of Echo, but in 1915.
Technically you could play the game chronologically, however, it would be better to play starting with Echo in my opinion and sandwiching in Route 65 after you complete one or two routes in Echo.
Hope you enjoy the read!
Thanks! I've been thinking over Echo a ton recently and have a few theories about some things within the plot.
The weirdest theory I have involves the various timelines and how Route 65 not only affects which route you are on in Echo, but might also affect what happened during the groups childhood.
I would love to see what other theories people have though cause it would be nice to see other perspectives on what happened in Echo.
Spoilers alert!
I apologize for the long post in advance.
I recently finished all the routes in the game + Route 65 and agree with most of what you said. I haven't played The Smoke Room yet, but have seen Build 2 for Arches, so I may be missing something talked about in TSR.
1. Chase does appear to be possessed, however, I'm not sure that Sam is actually good. In Flynn's route he pushes Chase and Flynn to condemn each other and guides Flynn into the mines to become the Red Socket Monster. Maybe I misunderstand Sam's reasoning, but between that, his constant insults towards Chase, and how Mr. Bronson and Sydney reacted to being possessed by Sam, I'm led to believe that he is probably not a good spirit either.
2. I think you are right on this one. Flynn never really explains why he knew in Leo's route and its not explained in other routes. I assume it was either the Hysteria giving him that info (Similar to how he was led to the mines on his route) or that the Moore family knows more about the source of the Hysteria and Flynn's aunt tipped him off.
3. I 100% agree with you that it is likely that Chase was possessed when killing Sydney (if that is what happened). Chase is repeatedly described as being a good simmer for his friend group but bad by Otter standards. Sydney (also an Otter) is more athletic that Chase but somehow could not hold his own against Chase. While Chase did get a surprise attack on Sydney, the speed and power needed to hold down another person long enough to drown them is beyond a 10 year old in my opinion, especially when they should be able to hold their breath as long as you. I think Chase was given extra strength to kill Sydney by the Mirror Ghost (Likely a spirit that wants the Hysteria to occur) to kill Sydney. This would be similar to when Chase gains strength to beat up Flynn in TJ's route.
I do want to mention though it is strange to me that the only route that attempts to confirm Chase killed Sydney is TJ's. It is touched on with people accusing Chase in Leo, Flynn and Jenna's routes (And I assume Duke was accusing Chase in Carl's route, but it never fully came up), however, none of those routes fully confirm it. Chase when not possessed (by the Mirror Ghost) doesn't seem to really remember it, but in TJ's route he gets either fully or near fully possessed and seems to realize what happened. Only in TJ's route does he seem to admit to killing Sydney. I have some theories regarding the Timeline and how Route 65 works as a prequel but this is already a long post.
4. I think you got this dead right, so I have nothing to add.
5. So the Hysteria seems to be a cyclical aspect of Echo, caused either by the Quartz in the mines or just some cursed aspect of the land itself. The area absorbs the negative energy of the people who are in the area over time. Every so often the negative energy is released back onto the town's inhabitants and you get a Hysteria Event. The trigger of an event appears to be whenever a murder occurs and the killer gets away without being caught, but I think that is not quite on the money. For example Mr. Bronson and Janice killed Sam and hid the body, but there was no Hysteria in the 70s (The most recent event at that time was the 60s if I recall correctly), Sydney's accident with his father could also have been a trigger but nothing beyond the possession seems to have happened for either of them. There is also the issue with Brian killing 19 people and none of their deaths appear to act as a trigger for the Hysteria, but somehow Chase returning to town is the trigger. It's also mentioned that the Hysteria would have happened eventually even if Chase never returned, so Chase's return was just the tipping point. This leads me to believe that the true Trigger is Chase having relationship issues with the rest of the friend group.
Each friend has some reason they care deeply about Chase and want him to spend time with them, so when Chase focuses on someone else their issues seem to intensify. Examples include: Leo's Chase Tulpa, Carl's route being about a haunted house which was why Chase spent the entire summer in 5th grade with him as well as Carl having an imaginary Chase he spoke to when crashing his car, TJ always wants Chase to join him on a hike and Jenna mentions that TJ was most excited to see Chase, Flynn has a strong attraction to Chase but believes that it wouldn't work due to a variety of circumstances, and last but not least is Jenna mentioning she gets jealous of what she can't have and when Chase spends time with her she flaunts it in front of Leo. I think that due to everyone wanting Chase to spend time with them, stresses the group and also may be the reason why Chase appears to be the center of focus for the Hysteria. Throw in that Chase probably killed Sydney on top of that and you've got a huge storm coming, honey.
6. Carl's route is a bit off, but that may be due to it being written first. James and John are possessing their descendants (Carl and Jenna) in a fight to either hide what really happened or reveal the truth of who was the pedophilic serial killer (The worst combo). Chase gets wrapped up in this due to the town using him as the witness that has to figure out which spirit is telling the truth and which one lies, while Raven kinda got stuck by being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Carl's route feels the most disconnected with what is going on in Echo, but that is due to it really being focused on what happened around the time of The Smoke Room. Since it takes place around that time it makes sense for TSR to have a few references to Carl's route.
As stated before I just finished the game and haven't check out TSR so I could be missing somethings and this is all just my two cents. If there is something wrong or you have a different theory, I would love to hear it.
Thanks for reading my TED talk.
