Dice Souls

Souls-like Dungeon Exploration · By Chris Bissette

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Benefit of upgrading Die Size?

A topic by KtG776 created Mar 17, 2022 Views: 291 Replies: 5

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KtG7762 years ago

Hey there!

So, I just picked up the game and really like what's there so far, but one thing struck me and I was curious as to the benefits I might not be seeing.

Namely, why would you upgrade your Die size? It makes everything more expensive (though this does have the effect of letting you progress a bit further before picking up soul dice), without giving you access to higher tier damage or health upgrades. I actually ran the numbers over at Anydice, and if you keep your starting d6 and pimp it out by taking off 2 Fails and adding 2-3 Crits (depending on if you're a Warrior), you actually end up having better odds of success with more dice. Not to mention the chances of having a spare Crit to double your damage after cancelling all your fails goes way up on a d6 in that situation as well.

So, I'm just curious what the intended benefit of upgrading die size is, since a bigger die doesn't automatically do any extra damage or have any higher potential for damage upgrading?

Chris BissetteDeveloper2 years ago

Failures happen on a roll of 1, 2, or 3 without buying any upgrades to remove them. On a d6 this gives you a 50% chance of failure, which goes down as the die gets bigger. Additionally, a bigger die gives you more space to add successes.

That said, nothing forces you to upgrade your die size. You're welcome to stick with d6 if that's more fun for you or you care about an "optimal" experience, for whatever that means to you.

KtG7762 years ago

So, I'm guessing you're just going on your gut here, and while I can appreciate that, the math doesn't actually support your intentions.

So, 2d6 with 3 Fails and 0 Crits gives you a 25% chance of success at 0 cost.
2d8 with 3 Fails and 0 Crits gives you a 39% chance of success, at a cost of 3 SD (18 Souls) + all future SD cost +2 Souls

2d6 with 2 Fails and 0 Crits gives you a 44% chance of success, at a cost of 3 SD (18 Souls)
2d8 with 2 Fails and 0 Crits gives you a 56% chance of success at a cost of 6 SD (42 Souls)

2d6 with 2 Fails and 1 Crit gives you a 59% chance of success at a cost of 5 SD (30 Souls)
2d8 with 2 Fails and 1 Crit gives you a 65% chance of success at a cost of 8 SD (58 Souls)

2d6 with 2 Fails and 2 Crit gives you 71% chance of success at a cost of 8 SD (48 Souls)

There's basically never a point where upgrading the die size is an improvement for the same cost. Even when you start adding dice:

3d8 with 2 Fails and 1 Crit gives you a 57% chance of success (drops by 8%)
3d6 with 2 Fails and 1 Crit gives you a 65% chance of success (drops by 6%)

And then lets just take a look at a maxed out d6:
2d6 with 1 Fail and 3 Crit gives you a 91% chance of success.

Then a maxed out d8:
2d8 with 1 Fail and 4 Crit gives you a 94% chance of success, but costs waaaay more than that maxed out d6 (Cost of upgrading the size + the cost of the extra crit + all the extra souls required per SD, even if you took the route of upgrading the crits before upgrading its size, that's still an extra 154 souls extra (3 (die upgrade) + 8 (4th crit) + 9 (remove 2 fails) for 120 souls, plus the 34 soul tax on the 4th crit and fail removals).

Then, as we add more dice:
3d6 with 1 Fail and 3 Crit gives you a 92% chance of success. Your odds actually go up by 1 percent.
3d8 with 1 Fail and 4 Crit still gives you a 94% chance of success.

4d6: 93% success
4d8: 94% success
4d10: 93% success

Basically, at least based on the math, given the costs, there isn't really any mechanical reason to upgrade your die size, even in the short term. And since the die sizes aren't tied to weapon type or anything, there isn't even a flavor reason to not go the "unoptimized" route.

Definitely not trying to come off as a jerk or anything. But since it doesn't seem like I'm missing anything, the upgrades might be something you want to address before the final version. Limiting max damage on lower size dice could be enough--if you have to roll the d6 more to kill an enemy, then you've got more chances to fail. Maybe have each die upgrade come with a free +1 damage upgrade on top of that?

Chris BissetteDeveloper2 years ago(+1)

You're more than welcome to use the license to write your own version of the game.

KtG7762 years ago(-3)

Wow. That's a pretty poor response to someone just trying to help after spending $20 on your incomplete project.

Kegan (@Keganexe)2 years ago (1 edit) (+3)

as a concept I love the idea of coming on to a game, writing an essay on why it's not designed how you'd do it, and then getting upset when they mention you're welcome to do it that way yourself since you've already spent so much time and effort thinking about it.

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Dice Souls

Benefit of upgrading Die Size?