Skip to main content

On Sale: GamesAssetsToolsTabletopComics
Indie game storeFree gamesFun gamesHorror games
Game developmentAssetsComics
SalesBundles
Jobs
TagsGame Engines

AI assisted development

A topic by mrmop44 created Dec 15, 2023 Views: 620 Replies: 9
Viewing posts 1 to 3
(+1)

I remember the days as an indie dev where I had to crack open my trusty art package and draw something awful and often unrecognisable to represent a character in my games.  Then one day along came asset stores, we could now all use the same assets and create  prototypes that all looked alike.  Then AI content generators came along and with it seems more freedom for one man bands. I recently started my very first game that is driven by AI generated content I've found the experience rather painful but rewarding. I am not well off, never have been or ever will be, I cannot afford to pay people to make me content and I don't want people to work on content for me with the promise of something that will never happen so to me AI seems like something that I can get along with. Anyone else trying AI assist in development? If not what stops you? If you have have you had any success?

I've used AI to generate art content, ideas, quest text and lists of things in a game I am working.  This is an example character from my game:

There is no way on this Earth that I can create content like that.

I'll always prefer human-made art over AI-generated because human art has stories behind them. Behind a human-made art piece is someone who gave their effort to it, whether it be a long time veteran or someone who's still learning the ropes. As someone myself who just became a pixel artist last year, I know very well the journey it took to get me here. So when it comes to games, I'll always appreciate devs who either make their own art or procure an artist - especially in this time when AI-generated art is becoming prevalent, human-made art feels much more special compared to when AI generation was non-existent.

However, you do have a valid point in that AI allows you to produce highly detailed art pieces, and the convenience it offers with just a few word prompts. I've used AI myself to produce references when I'm having a hard time visualizing scenes. Though another issue with AI currently is the 'ethical' aspects of it which most people don't agree with, but that's another topic. 

I assume you prefer something like this: pixel art > drawn on paper > drawn on a tablet > made in photoshop > custom made with 3d modelling > 3d engine screenshots > photos > made with ai > stock assets

Oh, and common misconception, ai art is still made by humans, they just use very advanced tools and most importantly, different skill sets. It is not unlike a DJ "making music" with combining samples or just having a playlist, in contrast to an accoustic guitar singer songwriter.

I tried using an AI out of curiosity. I lack the skill for that. I might make a single picture, but re-using a character is already beyond my ability. Doing a random background would be rather easy with it. And maybe, if I put much effort in it, and were an artist, I could train the system to use my own drawings to apply to poses or something like that.

Did you notice, that the guy in the picture has two ears on the left side of his head? ;-)

My preference is pixel art, I love pixel art but I am no good at it and getting AI to generate pixel it is a complete none starter for me. 

I agree, AI models are trained on images created by humans so they are in effect imitating thousands of different artists which is why you can end up with images with two ears, actually I think its meant to be some kind of elf ear but just doesn't look good. This is another thing, I regenerated that image yesterday using the same parameters and its changed, the original has a normal human ear. I think its because the software itself has changed over the last few months.

I think there will be jobs for humans that are specifically involved in generating AI content because its so difficult to use, especially if you are anyone artists trying to generate art content.

(+1)

I agree with that, AI isn't a 1:1 copy of someone else's work, it's definitely an 'inspiration' of a reference, much like how majority of artists always get inspiration either from references or other people's work. Sometime down the road an artist will always be inspired by something and they make a version of it, and AI generation is the very definition of that, just at a very extreme level. 

I don't see any issues with someone using AI as the backbone of their assets, if it's what's helpful to them then the better. From what I've observed what makes AI-assisted development hard to implement is the potential backlash coming your way. You'll get so many people bashing you for using "stolen" content and not so naturally-looking details.

(+1)

Very true. Even for things that are not really "AI". Or there is no backlash for things that are AI, but are not called that way. To my knowledge, there are filler filters and tools in photoshop that are AI.

Also you could train some AI with your own samples. Or the AI could be trained with "ethical" obtained material. I think the hate stems from the fact that now AI do things previously thought to be a human only task. But much of "art" is just manual skill and imitation with random inspiration. The current main argument against AI with the copyright and "stealing" will fall apart one way or another. At the latest, when they create AI that genereates Art procedurally and not with a database of things to imitate - some of those are so bad, that you can have signatures of the imitated artists surface.

I wouldn't say its convenient, getting an AI to produce what you see in your head, its a difficult task, far harder than coding. I suppose after years of using AI and you've become used to its quirks, it could then be classes as convenient, but right now, its frustrating and difficult. I can see jobs appearing which involve just getting AI to produce content that is reasonable.

I would prefer  human art simply down to the fact that a human can understand what I'm asking for, but humans cost a lot of money which I don't have. So its AI or nothing until that lottery win comes along.

I looked at screenshots of your game. You fixed the ears there (or introduced it to the picture, as he looks a bit different there).

Part of the hate on AI might stem from the fact that people do not understand, that it is a fundamentally different skill to use an AI. A musical orchestra conductor does not play the instruments, yet somehow is attributed with making the music. Same as a photographer is making the picture, yet only operates a device that captures what is there.

Composing and selecting, readjusting, fine tuning, correcting, sifting and formulating the wanted result and mundane computer skills of operating a software. That is what I imagine is needed to operate the AI. As a "classical" artist, you need knowledge of minerals and tinctures, of linen and brush thickness, how colors mix and dry in differnt speeds and ... oh wait. That was actual paint on canvas artists back in the day. Now you select a color in your color tool and it always has this color, with every stroke of the brush uhm the click of your mouse.

Yep, the software has changed some different images are being generated for the same input seed and parameters, something I wasn't aware of which kind of ticks me off, it was so difficult to get these images generated in the first place.

You raise some very good comparisons and I agree with them. I am unfortunately a lousy musician and conductor, seeing as it took me longer to generate the content than coding it

(+1)

Well, you are a coder. Toolmaking is a thing that makes us human. In game makeing this is apparant with procedural level design. Why design a level, when you can design rules for levels and let the computer do what compuers do: compute the level.

Once those AI thingies understand procedurally the inner workings of humans and other stuff depicted in images, you can train them differently and not just imitate other art's "hash values". They heavily play the simulacrum game of splottering random stuff that will look, like it is the thing related to the prompt. Boosted to 11 with mechanically tenacity.

It might be possible to do this without "training". Just look at character creation of modern AAA games. One can press the random button there. And with rigging you can do random poses of those models. That character you have there could have been rendered by one of those engines. They are also good with lighting effects. The accessories are another matter.

But if we only train them with pictures of hands, they will see many pictures of hands that are interlocked with other hands and "learn" this, literally not realizing, nor learning, how a 2d projection of a 3d human is supposed to look. What baffles me, is that the negative prompt of disfigured and such work. If it "recognizes" the disfigurement, why did it put it in, in the first place.

Actual artists work with those small wood puppets you can bend to a pose to have reference material, to put it into context.

Anyways, it is a gloryfied random number generator (with imprecise numbers). You can command that one AI to show you the steps by putting out a picture with each iteration of the same starting seed. And it is not some constant kind of evolution towards a fine tuning in direction of the prompt. It takes leaps and bounds all around what it considers fitting to the prompt. You can actually make the image "worse" by having too many iterations. It was fun to play around with the thing, but its limitations became apparant quickly. Or maybe the end of my skillz became apparant. Creating the same character twice is such a limitation. Unless you prompt for some celebrity. Maybe if you have art of your own and teach it, this is MC, make that image look like it is MC weilding an oversized sword in a lightning storm.