thanks, i was using borland fclt compiler until 2019 (5 megs on disk). i've put the debug build app in the zip, i didn't know there was a difference from the release build because i don't actually want to spend any time paying attention to anyone from microsoft. chatgpt just told me though so i'll try that now. finally humanity invented a robot that will tell me how to do things instead of suck dingdongs at the masonic lodge.