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But I LIKE filling out my army with only minotaurs!  What does it REALLY mean to break a game x3


No, I get it.  Ensuring that players play a game "the right way" is difficult when players always find a way to put every block through the square hole.  I'm not the biggest fan of "optimal gameplay" but I also accept that some people are either going to be hyper sweaty about it or...  Or, like me, move Heaven and Hell to ensure they get two assassin/healers with Last Breath and the Angel Rings just so I can call them my "Death Angels".


Goodness, I don't know how to balance that.  I like the ideas you're talking about but I don't know if any kind of system that encourages freedom with the builds will come into its own within thirty missions.  Like you said, jobs or skill trees or whatever will be a lot of work for the short time you have access to them.


Then again, why not make an anthology of games to experiment on different systems?  Keep it short and sweet while you test out features?  Or, maybe an anthology of demos?  Set it up as a different characters around the world and short stories attached to them so you can try out your ideas while fleshing things out.  I think something infinity did something that with alternative timelines in the demos.  Or scratch the story elements and make combat demos to see what resonates?  I tend to use an iterative process myself because I'm awful at planning things.


I'm even more excited to see what you end up doing x3


Biblically accurate angels.  That's a horror story in itself.  I always enjoy the idea of function deciding form and the nuance behind the angels becoming fallen in the first place is, I find, often greatly overlooked.  It's nice to hear you considering it!  Gets my mind thinking about how a watcher living among humans would become a sex deviant after being cut off from Heaven.  If they are considered bystanders in this fight to the point that they're being press-ganged into service, that indicates the fallen angels are not a united front.  Could be that the main Adversary (the Light Bringer himself - or your equivalent) has his cadre of conspirators.  When God closed off Heaven to the fallen, He could have left behind a lot of angels who were largely in the wrong place at the wrong time.  If interacting with humans caused the problem, then any angels with direct contact to humans are potential traitors.  That includes the watchers.


I wish my mind wasn't so scattered and I could remember all of this stuff more clearly.  Sorry if it's a bit of a mess.  I do enjoy speculating x3


Hehe.  I'm no stranger to temptation.  I like to joke that I'm not the snake; I'm the fruit.  That kind of thing plays a big part in my games, too.  I just love seeing what people consider important enough to risk themselves over.  That goes for physical and spiritual risks.  What will make you compromise on your principals or betray yourself and others?  But I also love seeing how the relationships form and grow over time and how decisions impact the world around people.  I'm not a purely sadistic person... but I also believe that every aspect of one's self is important.  This includes the more destructive, devious or disruptive aspects.  The more a person gets to visit those aspects, the better they are able to define themselves and grow.


You could treat Ynna like an out of combat asset that has to be protected while in combat.  I mean, that implies you could ever progress without her, I guess.  Like, she can help make situations easier to overcome or gather intel in her own special way or other things.  That could be the offset for her being a bit shit in a fight.  You want her there for what she can get you outside of fights but that is weighed against the risk she poses in a fight.


I do like Arielle.  She would be a really fun character to have for an "evil" playthrough.  Lots of vulnerabilities to exploit.  But I really like what you mentioned about her wanting to live up to her hero.  That's a really cool dynamic.  I would abuse it x.x


My NPCs run the gauntlet, from snuggly and innocent with no will of their own to sadistic, authoritarian megalomaniacs.  But they usually always have a reason for being the way they are and some redeeming qualities about them.  Think of... finding a weird balance to them.  Like, maybe somebody is ruthless and power hungry but values their reputation and integrity.  They want the world but are held in check by their own self image and sense of propriety.  Or, a person who gets along easily with everybody but will absolutely screw them over for personal gain and struggles because of it.


Some of my favorite NPCs are the throwaway ones like the ubiquitous bandits.  I had a small encounter where the town offered food and free lodging to save some of their people from a bandit group.  Then, you find out the bandits were mercenaries that the town refused to pay for services.  During the negotiation, some people panicked, some people got killed and a few of the mercs took hostages out of desperation to get out of the fight alive.


I think I may have strayed off topic >.<

Well, and if that's how you have fun, I don't want to stop you having fun. I just also don't want to put things in the way of people that are just exploring mechanics, or make something sloppy in the name of player choice. Though I don't really believe in there being a "right way" to enjoy a game, either. I've got a Rotten Meat item in one of my demos. You can eat it. Doing so hurts you. There's a small chance you might even get cursed. But if you eat it while cursed, it's the best food you have available, while almost every other food becomes either vastly less useful or outright harmful. If you want to try to play the entire game cursed, or drunk, or whatever, I want you to have that option, even if it's sub-optimal.
In that same vein, Maids & Masters has all sorts of opportunities to do something in at least two different ways. The problem is that I also have a lot of people that don't like doing it one way trying it out anyway on a second play through and complaining that the way they don't like feels like a waste of their time and there's no benefit because there's all this combat in their way (when the benefit is being able to go through that combat to get more XP in a game without respawning enemies or a way to grind levels indefinitely). It's really tricky to balance that out so everyone gets to have fun, because there are going to be some players that recognize the value of XP as a resource and slog through every combat encounter they possibly can for the sake of optimizing their levels even if they don't like the combat.

The way that translates to Dawnfall means I could add grind in stretching out missions so there's 50 or 60 - but that's way less fun for people that want the story but not combat, and it's kinda lazy game design. I can do something similar and make those extras side missions, but if all they are is a means to grind, it's still lazy, and that laziness will shine through and make the game less fun.
So it comes back around to making sure the balancing is as tight as possible, and hoping that translates into engaging with mechanics feeling rewarding instead of engagement feeling restrictive or mandatory.

The anthology thing is kinda what I'm already doing. Though they're all completely different games rather than being iterations on the exact same genre.
If you look at my creator page, aside from 3 pages being dedicated to Maids & Masters (my current main project), I've got a classic JRPG where combat is slow and thoughtful, a more modern RPG where combat is meant to be fast and easy and play less of a role in the overall game, a survival RPG with just as many mechanics put into crafting and management as there is combat, this (a tactical strategy RPG with a lot more complexity in and consideration given toward the equipment the characters use), a real-time action survival horror, and a straight up visual novel with none of any of that.
Everything except Maids & Masters and Precious Kouhai is effectively a demo that I made just to see if I had the tools and skills to pull it off (and Precious Kouhai is an excuse for me to learn Ren'Py and get better/faster at animating).

Honestly, the real trouble is that I'm just one person and I've got too many ideas for things I want to make. Just turning all my demos into full games is likely to take me a decade - probably longer - and that's before getting into the 40-something GDDs I have saved elsewhere.

Anyway.

I love theology. I studied it a fair bit when I was younger (mostly through church youth groups). I had questions, so I kept doing research and started dipping my toes into religions besides Christianity and learning how different views on what is functionally the same thing could lead to wildly different interpretations. From there, I got into pop culture things like the World of Darkness TTRPGs (specifically, Demon the Fallen, and a supplement for it called Dies Ignis that details things like the Book of Genesis and the War in Heaven from Lucifer's perspective, and later Demon the Descent from Chronicles of Darkness), TV shows like Supernatural, and on and on.
Demon the Descent in particular sets up player characters as former angels. You had a specific purpose based on the type of angel you were (and you build a "demonic form" to suit that purpose, which they heavily recommend not being humanoid), and you fell because you stopped serving that purpose. Aside from the main storyline the GM wants to tell, each player is supposed to have their own mystery to unravel to learn what their purpose was, why they fell (which could be anything from hesitating to perform your function for a split second to full-blown monstrous villainy), who they want to be now that they have autonomy, and whether you want to try and redeem yourself to return to your function or construct your own personal hell to do whatever you want without worrying about angels hunting you down. And each major "key" thing you learn about yourself unlocks a new level of powers you're able to get. It's a neat game.
Combining the pop culture fiction with actual theology and trying to answer the questions I keep asking myself results in some really interesting ideas (I think, anyway).

I did consider something like a character having more out-of-combat utility than in-combat (though that was for Emma; she's meant to join you as an archer but I didn't have enough time to get her fully implemented), but I couldn't decide on a good way to implement it (my first thought was to have her join and leave at certain intervals, coming back with more stock for you to buy from her at the cost of her not being around for fights, but it felt too arbitrary to do at story points and too punishing to make you choose it deliberately), so I ultimately decided to just have everybody be a party member for the sake of flexibility. Trying to avoid spoilers, once you get your hands on more weapons, Ynna should start being more glass-cannon-y or utility-based over time - depending on what weapons you give her to learn skills from. You could just give her a sword and shield and tell her to deal with it.
Same with the idea of an "evil Arielle." Way too many spoilers.

That's kinda how character depth works, though. I've got plenty of characters that start out giving you nothing but reasons to hate them. Maybe they're trying to trick you into saying something stupid so they can take advantage of it, maybe they want to kick you when you're down, maybe they're just pretending to be a friend so they can abuse you when you lower your guard. But also maybe they're really affectionate once you prove you can hold your own against them, or they'll be your most powerful ally if you can set aside your differences. Or maybe they're irredeemable and are going to snap and start committing atrocities the moment they see a chance to do so. At least some of that depends on what you do as a player rather than there only being one way for the story to go.
I'm expecting to get some backlash once MnM's next story update goes public because there won't be an option to kick in one guy's door and stab him to death because he's been openly hostile toward you for most of the game, and now you have to sit down and have a conversation with him in order to keep moving forward.

I've had similar experiences with what should otherwise be throwaway NPCs. There was one guy in particular (of 7, none of whom were even given enough of a description for players to know if they were orcs or humans or whatever) that one of my D&D parties got so attached to, not only did they refuse to kill him, they helped rehabilitate him so he'd have a shorter prison sentence, then hired him to help one of them run their smithy that they used to make their own armor during downtime.

Which, yeah, is probably pretty far off topic. No worries, though. With the number of keystrokes we've thrown at each other, some meandering is expected. =P

Hehe.  I love the stories and insights that come from gaming groups.  My memory is spotty at best after more than a few years but I have lots of anecdotes bouncing around in my head.


I get what you're saying with the mechanics.  I largely agree, too.  The combat system you're cooking up might be pretty good.  To revisit what you said earlier, Tactics is one of those desert island games for me too.  I have been hoping Sony releases it on Steam with mod support.  More of that game would be wonderful.  I liked TA but it felt like they thought it was too simple and threw in that judge system.  No, just give me more fighting and story!  My teleporting double-fister need more adventuring!


If the combat system does get to be addictive like that, you better believe I'll want more x3


TLS had a finite amount of XP to gain, too.  As much as I bluster, I really can't be bothered to track everything down.  I'm not a completionist or a loot goblin.  I get a fair bit frustrated at loot-goblining.  Can't get into Diablo or Borderlands for that reason.  Gun is gun.  Gun doesn't need to have its name in purple.  It's also sort of why I don't care so much for Pathfinder, although I somehow know how to make a character by heart and I love the lower level play.  Once you get high end magic items and high levels, it stops making sense to me.  Maybe I'm just anti-fun.


The games you mentioned sound neat.  I'll have to look into them!  And I didn't realize you made so many games already.  It's nice to know one of my ideas seems to hold merit even if somebody else thought about it first x3


Ooh, evil Arielle.  Yeah, I can sense that being a direction.  She certainly has some bite to her.  I like her~


And yeah, I guess we have been talking a lot.  It's been a lot of fun!  You seem like a really cool person.  If you ever get on SL, I'll introduce you to the family!


My role play partner in the game I'm running, she encountered a slave girl working as a server at a travelers inn.  Being a slave, she was also used for relief for the patrons.  Well, she witnessed her being... "used" in such a way and had some distinctly mixed feelings.  So, she bought the girl.  I hadn't planned on fleshing her out any so I ran the slave girl through my Chaos Engine to randomly generate her stats and traits.  The darn thing spat out a gorgeous bunny girl with almost no flaws.


Well, shucks.  Alright.  Turns out, she paid WAY less than anybody would dare asking for a slave of that quality.  She had intended on setting the girl free but...  They've ended up having sex almost every night since then.  I think she still intends on setting her free but I also wouldn't be surprised if she just kept her forever.


The plot, so far, is that she's is traveling across a semi-lawless Medieval Fantasy region.  This is just to get her setup in the area and to introduce plots to her.  The starting sub-plot is a beastman taurian gambler got in over his head with a local gang run by a troll woman.  To save himself, he agreed to join this caravan and help the troll ambush it.  In the caravan is a flesh sculptor transporting a lot of personal wealth in a HUGE wagon.  The troll would attack and, while the caravan security were distracted, the beastman and his group were supposed to break into the flesh sculptor's wagon and steal her money then hand it off to their Centaur co-conspirator and make off with it.


Not one thing has gone right for them and my partner has stumbled right into the middle of it.  She's had the plot slowly revealed to her in bits and pieces and ended up agreeing to help them.  She is going to help them by luring the troll woman out to kill her.  But...  The same problems that they had trying to ambush the caravan in the first place still persist.  So, now she has to try and get the caravan scout to stop being so good at avoiding their ambushes somehow to ensure they can lure the troll out and arrange the ambush so she doesn't get away and keep the Caravan Master from figuring out what she's doing.


Bunch of other plots on top of that.  One of the tag-alongs joined up with her by blatantly offering to include her in a conspiracy.  But, she didn't want to tell her what the conspiracy was.  In a bit of a twist, this person has been a mooch but also an absolute wingwoman at the same time, saving her from a couple bad situations.  She has eyes on stealing a diminutive slave girl from yet another customer attached to the caravan who has nothing to do with the plot to ambush it.  The flesh sculptor has her eyes on yet ANOTHER member of the caravan because she wants to win them over as a love interest.  Yet another faction arranged the caravan to see the flesh sculptor safely to the city and have an airship shadowing them just in case something goes wrong.  On top of it all, the Caravan Master is a dominant, heroic teifling looking guy who can summon tentacles.  So...  May partner is infatuated with him x3


Already, the centaur managed to get himself strung up by the neck for trying to kill the scout.  The executive officer of the caravan was compromised by the quartermaster who was bought off by the beastman.  When the XO got cold feet and tried to back out, the Q threw her into a tentacle colony to try and get rid of her.  The scout is a skittish, nearly feral fox girl who barely understands Common and has an overriding fear of men.  The XO was rescued by my partner and is being treated for addiction caused by the Quartermaster's meddling and the Quartermaster, after getting away, has met up with the Troll and is now giving them direct aid for a cut of the outcome.


It's been a lot of fun.

I've heard news that FFT is actually getting a remaster or remake. Granted, more rumors than proper news. It hasn't been officially announced or anything. Yet.
Fully agree on Tactics Advance. I liked the story, but that judge system was awful. Plus it was in that weird FF12 Ivalice, not the original FFT Ivalice. Somehow it got a sequel and a spinoff, though.

TLS is a huge inspiration for me. Sierra Lee is unironically one of the reasons I started on this game development journey. If you do end up playing Maids & Masters, you'll probably be able to pick out a number of pretty direct references (and maybe a few not-so-direct ones).
Though in the case of Dawnfall, I'm taking more from Fire Emblem, which does occasionally have something like an arena where you can kinda grind a little, but for the most part if you want to level up and over-prepare, you need to do side missions. You can't just wander the map like you can in FFT.

I don't mind grind when it's done right. The trouble is that it's hard to do right. Like, I play a fair bit of Warframe, and that's a pretty grindy game, but the more you play it, the faster missions go. I've also played and enjoyed a handful of loot-heavy games, including Borderlands. A lot of them, though (including Borderlands 3, as far as I'm concerned) kinda stop being about interesting loot. Instead there's just a large volume of it with little to none of it being interesting and nearly all of it being roughly equally useful. That leads to "RPG mechanics" in games that don't need them and giant piles of look that are nothing but tiny incremental gains, so none of it is ever interesting, even if they try to cover it in a "loot rarity" coat of paint. I swear RPGs get a bad reputation because of that kind of behavior leading to a ton of people not liking them, when what they really don't like is bad game design. And now here I am with my love of RPGs and next to no one is making the kind of games I want to play. 

At least now I have the skills necessary to do it myself. Even if the production value isn't where I'd like.

Most of my games are just demos (at least for now), but Maids & Masters has around 30 hours of gameplay and is roughly halfway through the second act. The little prequel thing, Arrival, also lets you carry your save forward so you can keep the stuff you find (and if you get a 100% clear, you get a bonus).

I can't say I'm familiar with SL. Second Life?

Sounds like pretty typical TTRPG chaos (though admittedly with more bunny girl seggs and tentacles). Of all the nerdy hobbies I have, TTRPGs are probably my favorite. I just don't have the spare brain space to run them anymore with all my creative energy going into making my games now. Still a deeply rewarding and uniquely fun hobby when I get to play in games, though.