Post by burn175890 in Crossdressing in Camelot comments

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Sigh... I really want to like this game. I was born male but I'm currently exploring gender identity and gender expression so I was hoping that this game would give a safe way to explore this without the real world risks of that expression. For the most part that's the case but I have two issues that I prevent me from fully engaging with this game in it's role play (tho I guess other players experiences may vary).

FYI some spoilers ahead

The first issue I have is the casual way your character can rape other NPCs and how it's not even presented as rape. Just to be clear I don't have a problem with rape being depicted in media but I feel like it should be presented as such with some of the consequences explored. In the first dungeon you can penetrate an imp that's humping a wall without them noticing that you're even there and without talking to them. Since you're on top, your depravity goes down and then afterward you can talk with them and have a fun glory-hole scene where your femininity goes up. Later on in the dungeon you can stumble on your tom-boy friend, who earlier in the story saved your life, having sex with an orc and you can join in. Tom-boy makes it clear that her ass is off limits but later in the scene you finger her butt. This is violates the imp's consent so is rape but it's played off as not a big deal. Having seen real relationships ended and life long trama created over less, these types of scenes where consent violations are treated so casually is disappointing.

The part that makes this more disappointing is that most of the time this game does a good job with consent. Most of the combat scenes end with some option to fuck the loser or if you get defeated then you get fucked. With combat as easy as it is, it's usually clear if you're going to lose next battle or not so losing a battle to get fucked by a monster is really your choice (closer to CNC play as apposed to rape imo). If you win the combat there's usually a conversation with the monster on whether to fuck or not, also the monster is usually a willing party so sex after winning in combat isn't rape, it's just everyone is super horny.

My second issue, is the depravity system, which punishes you with extra damage in combat (tho later on this gets more complex). This depravity system exists in contrast to the femininity system where you to deal more damage by increasing your femininity.

I'm sure the author has an internal logic on which sex acts are "depraved" and which aren't but that isn't clear in game. Watching/participating in some sex scenes will greatly increase your depravity while others don't and it seams to me that whether the act is depraved or not depends on the author's framing. For example, there's a nice scene where you can go on a date with a nice Elf drink cheap wine in the tree tops and have sex at the end. This doesn't increase your depravity by much but it does increase your fem by a lot since you went on a nice date. I could imagine framing the same experience as your player being a "cheep ho" especially since the whole scene started with your propositioning the Elf for sex and this being a very "depraved" scene. Same goes for the scene where you become a slime mommy. In the game this is framed as an amazing multiday thing where you agree to carry some slime babies to term for a cute virgin slime NPC and this doesn't increase your depravity at all but increases fem by a lot. Another way to frame the same scene is that since you are technically this slime creature's collared breeding mare you are agreeing to be breeding stock for the sake of sex with a monster making you the character a "depraved" slut. Also it seams like all sex acts where you're on top tend to reduce depravity which idk I've seen plenty of depraved males that prefer to be on top.

To me this depravity/femininity system is too close to a "morality" system that judges the player for their sex acts in what feels like an arbitrary fashion. This feels like slut/kink shaming which feels kinda off especially for such an overall sex positive game.

I know I focused a lot on the negatives in this post but I do think there's a lot to appreciate with this game. The effort put into this game is clearly on display. From the story, the creativity with the scenes, the art, and the subtle and not so subtle ways the game encourages the player to adopt more and more feminine characteristics and exploring that side of the character, the "relatively" simple but engaging RPG combat system, clearly a lot of time, effort , and care must have gone into this game to put this in it's current state. With that said these two patterns make it hard for me enjoy the game and more often then not I end up feeling gross and sad after finishing a session with the game.

Stickyicky17 days ago

The first thing I should say is that none of the scenes in game are written with the intention of appearing at all non-consensual, though I can see what you mean about the scene with Katie. I'm probably more likely to overlook things that might come across like that with the stuff I write because in my mind, it's always consensual. I know that Katie tells the player her ass is off limits specifically because she wants the player to fuck the Orc with her, because she wants to make the Orc cum multiple times, not because she's actually opposed to anal with the player. But of course, as the person playing the game, you can't know that, and I think it was worded poorly for that intention, so I'll probably adjust the wording on the scene. I think it's especially worth changing since fingering her ass isn't presented as an option to the player, it's just how the scene plays out.

I don't think I will change the scene with the Imp (Stacy) though. When you first encounter her, she immediately wants the player to act as a "hole girl" for her in the gloryhole you mention, so I don't think it's out of place for the player to go straight to sex when they find her humping the wall shortly afterwards. It's also played off as not being a big deal to try and further set the mood of the game, which, like you mentioned, is that everyone is super horny, and so while the Imp wanted to top the player, that was still more of a preference than anything. (A big reason everything is set up like this is to have sex tied into combat feel consensual, as it's more like the characters are fighting to see who's going to be on top, because the outcome of sex is just a given as far as everyone is concerned.) Lastly, I'm less bothered by it because it's optional.

As for depravity, it can be a bit of a mess at times. The main reason topping reduces depravity, is because it also often reduces femininity. And since reducing femininity is strictly a negative, if topping didn't also reduce depravity, you'd just be straight up punished for doing it. Which is especially bad since it's usually an option for winning a fight, so making winning a punishment would just feel really bad.

Generally, I've considered events that reduce depravity to either be purifying through something like volunteering at the church, or simply something that raises the players confidence, even if that doesn't exactly fit the idea of reducing depravity. I even have some scenes where the note that lets you know your depravity has gone down questions how what you've just done could actually reduce your depravity, lol.

As for your comment on depravity being based on my framing of a scene, I don't really see an alternative. You point out that you could imagine framing the Elf treetop date scene as the player being a cheap hoe, which reads to me that you can also view it the way I intended as a less depraved scene. So if you can see it both ways, what choice do I have other than to make the decision myself there? It can't be both high and low depravity.

I also don't really see the slut shaming angle, especially since the game lets you fully embrace having high depravity and unlock skills that benefit from higher levels of depravity. There's also the game mechanic angle to look at. Defeat scenes often give high depravity because it's a soft punishment for losing to an enemy, though the scenes will also usually give a smaller amount of femininity as compensation. Voluntary scenes that give high depravity usually also give the player rewards that outweigh the downside of the depravity gained, so choosing to slut it up is meant to be beneficial.

I'm glad you liked the game otherwise. I'd like to say there aren't more scenes that will turn you off like the one's with Katie and the Imp, but I'd never considered that those scenes could be seen that way, so there might be other scenes in the game that would turn you off like that, I can't make guarantees either way.

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