Post by perfeks in SPECTACLE comments

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I finally finished this game! It was great :) I enjoyed it a lot and it reminded me of the old adventure games (in particular, the universe brought me back memories of King's Quest VI). The quality is good enough to pay for the game. Now here's a more detailed feedback from a gamedev's point of view (for possible improvements):

[SPOILERS]

More specific text with failed, but plausible actions could be great. For example: I tried to pick the floating bottle with the sabre and polearm (I didn't have the correct item). It would be great if the game acknowledges that this is viable, but finds an explanation of why this doesn't work. Same for grabbing the fruit with the same items. This could also be an opportunity to give the player more accurate information on what kind of item he has to use and makes him understand more why the item is stuck/unreachable. This would be a smart way to give hints.
The background is sometimes tedious to examine. It is hard to understand what the game considers separate entities or just plain background. I know it's part of the game, but maybe hovering over the background could already give an info (highlighting or displaying the pointed entity's name). I ended up clicking the same background way too much and had to lose time to pass the generic text. I wouldn't have lost that much time if while hovering it still says "palace" or something. "use X on X" text could also be great. It would also help with all the hidden things (which are kinda lame if you're stuck because of them :) ). Also, the door on the right in the monastery could react to exams when it's closed.
Remove the items that aren't needed anymore. Players will always appreciate when their inventory doesn't get filled with single-usage items and will be able to focus more on what's important. I know it is already implemented (hook or polearm), but some extra cleaning could help (e.g. "torn note" or scrolls)
A "wait" button (forward 30min) could be easily implemented and would be great. In particular, if you want to be 30min later on the same spot, doing the whole "move + freeze time + come back" is tedious. Also, seeing the sky while the time passes seems like an essential mechanic to the game (forwarding 6h is too much to see how things change). By the way, the spell to pass time would be more useful if you could choose directly what hour of the day you want (by clicking on the watch for example). I don't think it would impact the gameplay in a negative way.
Some things could be hinted a tiny bit more. Actually, I think all secret places (or their existence) should be mentioned somewhere (in a book or whatever). Also, maybe mention something about the glowing insects related to time.
I found some spelling mistakes. I can't remember where exactly, but I swear I read "theives" (instead of thieves) and "tress" (instead of trees) and some more. Maybe double-check.
I liked the idea of the procedural dungeon. However, I think the timer was a bit "off". The game didn't require to react quickly so far, so it was weird for me. I think it would have been more relevant to have a limited number of steps (or limited number of 30 in-game minutes). This way, you could add some interactions with the environment. Having to run through these corridors without being able to examine/use anything was kinda frustrating. All I did was just brainlessly use the "follow the wall" trick and quickly skipped the whole section, which I suppose required quite some time to implement.
The game crashed when I used "open" on the torn note. Also got some "generic fail X", but I can't remember where.

All in all, this was a great game! I loved the idea of the use of time and I liked that you're guided by the scrolls. This magical universe is really immersing. If there are players reading me that are stuck, make sure to check for secret places everywhere (especially where you already collected items).

GrahfMetal4 years ago(+1)

Wow, thanks for the thorough feedback and advise, that very much appreciated. It's always great to see constructive feedback with good examples.

- Your first point is fantastic, definitely will consider more detailed fail texts for a future patch

- The second and third points are also great, but they're more of a design choice meant to emulate the original Kemco ICOM NES trilogy. So we actively chose to keep certain gameplay elements "dated" in order to keep authenticity, part of our goal admittedly is capturing nostalgia, but I 100% get what you're saying.

- The fourth point on waiting 30 min. and choosing a time is actually something we tested out early on quite a bit and we found it made things way too easy and felt that the combination of moving, freezing time and passing time 6 hours made the puzzles require more planning. trust me, it took a LOT of trial and error to decide on freeze working for 5 screens, time forward being 6 hours and screen movement being 30 min. we tried several combinations and this is what we felt worked for us, I do understand the tedium, but it's a decision we felt worked the best. Great suggestions, nonetheless

- As for the final point on spelling mistakes...I figured that was bound to happen. I'll do a quick pass of the text to see what I can find for the next patch, thanks :D

Again, I really appreciate the awesome feedback. Out of curiosity, what would you say your level of experience in both point and click adventure games and puzzle games is? Also, have you played the Macventure originals, Shadowgate, Deja Vu, Deja Vu II and/or Uninvited?

On that note, have you played or other game, Infested?

perfeks4 years ago (2 edits) (+1)

Well, thanks for the game! I think most people don't realize how much time it takes to make a game of this quality, so publishing it for free is something to honor.

I didn't even know it was based on a particular game family, so I guess your design choices make sense. However, keep in mind that implementing such a game from scratch is a great opportunity for you to add your own touch and features that weren't possible or weren't thought of at the time. I'm pretty sure adding things that make it more comfortable for the player wouldn't damage the nostalgia trip (considering how everything else is well set up).

About the time things, if you tested and came up with these values, then I think I can't argue much about it. But in my opinion, there are two different "too easy" for the player. The first "too easy" would be if the player completes a puzzle by chance or if the puzzles are too obvious to figure out, this one, of course, you want to keep it away. The second "too easy" is when a player figured out a hard puzzle or found the solution to a hard problem, and then isn't struggling to achieve it "mechanically" (clicking something that is too small, too fast, navigating in a slow UI etc...), that kind of "easy" is something you want. Not having it would only be great for action games in my opinion. It felt a bit weird to have to do "come and go" to pass time by 30 minutes instead of just clicking a button. If it was intended to have to figure out the "move, freeze, come back", maybe design a puzzle specifically to have to do something like this (e.g. you can't stay on a tile or you would die from quicksands or something...). Because once the player figured this out, if he has to repeat this task multiple times at other places, you will bore him (pushed to the extreme, that would be like having to cross the desert manually everytime, but you identified that it would be boring and implemented the second kind of "making it easy"). Also, I would undoubtedly prefer a "choose the time spell" with a very long animation over a fast "6 hours forward", this way I would only be able to easily do what makes sense and won't "bruteforce" the solutions. Anyway, I'm pretty sure you have your reasons to design it this way, but just sharing some ideas here.

I haven't played any of the games you mentioned. I've played all the monkey islands, runaways, day of tentacle and this particular king's quest I talked about (also some other indie games). I'd say I'm an experienced gamer and game designer in general, but not particularly in those kind of games.

I saw you made another game of this kind, I felt more attracted to the universe of this one, but I might try the other someday ;)

Also, I edited my other comment and added 2 more things. See ya!

GrahfMetal4 years ago(+1)

"However, keep in mind that implementing such a game from scratch is a great opportunity for you to add your own touch and features that weren't possible or weren't thought of at the time. I'm pretty sure adding things that make it more comfortable for the player wouldn't damage the nostalgia trip"

Oh don't worry, there is plenty of comfort updates and modern touches in our games. I just wanted to make sure to capture the essence of the originals as much as possible.

Again, some more great points clearly coming from a place of experience. Especially about the types of "too easy". Thanks for sharing, but yes, we did in fact have our reasons for doing it the way we did.

I HIGHLY recommend Shadowgate, as it's a genuine masterpiece and the gold standard in this specific sub-genre of game. Deja Vu and Uninvited are also fantastic. Make sure you play the NES Ports, which are the definitive versions and what our games are gameplay and graphically based on. You can actually get the 3 NES games bundled together on PS4, XB1 or STEAM as the "8-Bit Adventure Anthology: Volume I". Of course an NES cartridge for Shadowgate is dirt cheap if you're an original hardware person like me ;)

Also, thanks for the OPEN TORN NOTE crash, fixing that now!

perfeks4 years ago(+1)

I'll make sure to try your recommendations whenever I feel like playing this genre. If you got inspiration from those for Spectacle, then they surely must be great!

itch.io

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