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(+3)

   4.0 was great, and definitely worth the wait in many regards, but I have some thoughts about the unofficial cruel route of the game in this update. I don't bring this up because I want to see Asterion come to further harm, but because the "cruel master" route gives valuable perspective to the player's actions which the "kind master" route is often unable to supply. 

   The ending of 3.0 illustrated this perfectly. I played through the kind master route first, and I was rewarded with a pleasant lyre performance, so I then played out the cruel master route to see it's conclusion. It gave me chills. Asterion gashing at the walls of his room, playing the lyre until he bleed from the fingers, mindlessly repeating the same delayed phrase- it was haunting. Combined with the the minotaur's detached telling of the performance, the cruel ending of 3.0 brought better insight into the traumas that Asterion faced (as well as his all-too-vivid coping methods) than the kind routes ever could have.

   And yet, one of the most significant cruel route scenes is nearly completely absent from the 4.0 version of Minoh Hotel. If the player is perfectly kind to the minotaur throughout the entire story, with his only flaw being that he sent Asterion to the valley in his first interaction with Argos, then the player is "rewarded" with the aforementioned detached retelling of Asterion's performance. The scene elaborates on the minotaur's coping mechanisms, and intriguingly hints that Androgeos has a much stronger connection to the minotaur than one might have thought. But then the game ends. There's no way to continue to 4.0 with this ending, the only message the player receives following the scene is: "It seems you got a bad outcome- the game will take a different path if you got this ending at the conclusion of 3.0, which we will be adding soon." "There's more Minotaur Hotel if you go back and make different choices." I remember similar text being found if one tried to send Asterion to Argos in the 2.0 build, so I assume that this is just a missed relic of development. But I fear that the message may indicate that the scene will be entirely removed from the game in future updates, akin to the two apples vs the grapes outcome based on initial interactions with Asterion in the early parts of the game.

    Near the end of the main story of 4.0 the player is pressed by Asterion to reveal their true colors, and is then given four options for how to respond to the minotaur. All four illustrate restrained compassion in the face of absolute power over another, and they are perfect for the kind master route- but they make absolutely no sense for the cruel master route. The cruel master route saw the player give into their base desires at every turn they could, savoring the power disparity between the protagonists, and sending the minotaur to toil in the valley without much more than a second thought. None of the presented options illustrate the depraved character of the player in the cruel routes, and its even jarring to then see Astertion compare this despicable player to his own beloved brother.

   The ending of the main story section of 4.0 also seems to disregard the cruel choices of the player. No matter how despicably the player treated Asterion, the same actions plays out.  No matter how many times the player threw Asterion out into the valley, the same uplifting picnic ending occurs. The only acknowledgement of the player's sins is some flavor text about how many times the minotaur had been cast into the valley. It simply doesn't make sense for the player who held Asterion in his arms as he cried after leaving the cold room for the first time in over 80 years, to be given the same ending as the player who simply stood and waited as Asterion broke into a panic attack at his knees. 

   I understand that there are plans to have a cruel route ending in the 5.0 version of the game, and that sounds really exciting. However, for the aforementioned reasons I don't think such an ending would work due to the state of the cruel route of 4.0.

   Mind you, I love this game. I've been following the progression of the project for a year now and its incredible to see how far it's come and all the new aspects it has developed. However, I worry that the current state of this update jeopardizes the wonderfully crafted (unofficial) cruel route of the previous versions.

(1 edit) (+4)

Hello! Thank you for your wonderful comment. I'm always glad when I hear from someone who played the ruthless content and understood why we put it.

Now, 0.4 did not add new content to the ruthless route. This was a conscious choice, and the reason is that the next piece of content for it contains information which would spoil 0.5. To make it work as we intended it can only be published when we get to a specific point of the story.

To give you an analogy, we didn't intend on the ruthless content being as long as the regular route... Instead we went at it with the premise going all-out, no holds barred in terms of writing style. We are more creative with how the content is written, we exercise a bit more of our stylistic skills, we show more of our cards. It's meant to reveal a whole other side to Asterion, to show what are the consequences of mistreating someone. So we won't remove the ruthless route. I'd say removing it would be akin to removing an important part of Asterion's character.

But it is going towards an end, yes, and we still need more time to make it work. It's going to be intense.

I'd like to hear from you again when we release 0.5 to see what you think of it, and to gather more suggestions on how we could make the whole thing flow better and more coherently. Right now our focus is writing new content, but after 0.5 is done I'd like to do some editing to perfect previous sections of the story.

Thank you for your wonderfully thoughtful comment.

(Edited to expand a bit, because I was sleepy when I wrote this comment.)

(+3)

   Thank you both for your incredible responses, they were such a relief. It's comforting to know that this incredibly written route of the game won't be neglected and I can't wait to see how the cruel story progresses/ends in the 5.0 update! It makes perfect sense for the route to end in the next version after reflecting on Kota and Luke's dialogue in the picnic scene, and it'll be exciting to contrast how the two routes play out in 5.0.

   Thank you again for the incredibly quick responses, and the opportunity to give feedback on this exceptional game.

(+2)

Shiiiit... I was planning on doing a ruthless route eventually, but seeing how that second paragraph made me actually kinda sick I think I'll pass. This leaves me only to wonder how Minotaur Hotel's writing is used in such situations. Thanks for talking about this though! 

(+4)

The Ruthless route shows a different side to Asterion. For people who play Minotaur Hotel as one would play a detective game it gives a lot to think about.

But it's an extra, and one we knew from the start is not for everyone. The game, after all, is about doing the right thing, so having a stretch of content about doing everything morally wrong should be repulsive for most.

That said we think that when it's all said and done people will appreciate the ruthless content because it will serve as contrast. It shows what bad things can happen, and the regular route of the game will be sweeter, more enjoyable when people know what an ethical, humane conduct avoided.

(+3)

To clarify what Minoanon said, the option to be cruel to Asterion is an optional but important part of the game, and the content from the previous builds is going to stay there.

When you get to the end of 0.3 the game will split, if you treated Asterion well you will continue to build 0.4's content and the rest of the game from there, but if you got the bad ending you will be directed to content specific for the cruel master that wraps up his story. As you see in 0.4, Luke and Kota won't even tolerate the player having the option to mistreat Asterion and will quit if he doesn't accept the ring contract, clearly there's no way the story can carry on like nothing happened if you abuse Asterion. It's gonna need its own conclusion. 

We're really happy to hear that you gave this route a shot and understand the purpose of that content, even if most players don't want to see it (which is perfectly valid). Hope we don't disappoint with 0.5's content.