Howdy! This is the general thread for all matters relating to Build 0.4. Make yourself at home!
So... That was pretty long... uhhhh... I forget to mention there's a possible error in the scene just before you sit down to eat with Asterion. His sprite is a smidge too high making him float.
K. Sleep now. Thankies....
I'll see if i can find this and fix it for the next release. Thanks a lot for your very thorough feedback, I speak for the whole team when I say we really appreciate it when people elaborate on what they liked so we know we're on the right track.
>I was kinda worried about having a A-Plot/B-Plot kinda sitch, but I'm sure you guys can pull it off. We'll do our best. A bunch of the 0.5 Hinterlands content is written already and I believe it's gonna be one of the cooler parts of the game, I can't wait to start porting it over to the VN.
>Storm's 'confused moo face' is the best I'm glad to hear that too. I started doing a comic as an excuse to practice making more expressive characters and I think it's beginning to show in the sprites for the newer characters in MinoH. Storm's sprites were some of the most fun to make.
>I think of the fact you are so transparent with the situation, makes it a non-issue IMO I don't think it's a non-issue that we spent 6 months without new story content, I hope 0.5 doesn't come to that considering a lot of the work is already done, but six months of waiting is a lot to ask from an audience used to monthly updates from other VNs, even if the (eventually released) build is large enough to compensate. But yes, clear and constant communication and updates do mitigate this, one of the main takeaways we got from the big FVN survey we did a couple months ago is that there's little the audience in this niche hates more than radio silence, and letting people know if there's going to be delays, or what the estimated amount of content in a new build is going to be like, is really important.
Really happy to hear you enjoyed the build!
If you mean "guest" as in "guest of the hotel", he might become a guest some day, who knows?
Or do you mean as in "written by a guest writer"? If so, no, P and Storm's segment was written by us as always.
I meant "designed by someone else and put in as a cameo," but I should have figured guest was vague lol
He's one of our characters, but his design process was vastly different from the usual one, so it makes sense he feels different. Hopefully we'll make his story fun though!
Great work!
I wonder how do the cobalts get into the bedrock? Or do they born in there?
btw, I believe you have miscount something relationship score since Build 0.3
Yeah I might have been off by 0.5 on the maximum affection for the build. We might put out a hotfix for 0.4 if players report more bugs, this will definitely be included. Thank you for bringing it up!
Well, that was quite the ride. I decided to start this one fresh to get the full experience and wow, it was so awesome. Don't really know where to start, so I may ramble a little. My apologies in advance.
So, I guess the best place to start is with my impression as of the story as a whole and so far I'm loving it. If I hadn't been playing the game on my phone I'd probably been jumping up at down like a kid at certain points in the story(particularly the ones where you get to show kindness to Asterion). The flow of the story is nice and even with my knowledge that chapter 13 was the new chapter, there were no major hiccups in the scene transitions I could detect. I liked that we got to see more about Kota and Luke as characters, and their weird rival-friend thing they got going. It is pretty fun to watch and it makes sense given all the two have experienced together. I gotta admit that Luke wasn't my favorite character by build 0.2, but he's starting to grow on me. Also, the cobalts were so fun to watch and their reaction to Kota the Dragon was pure gold, reminded me of some DnD sessions I have had. Then we got to the meat of the conflict on this built: the little revelation and the newly crafted contract. I don't want to say too much in case someone didn't get that scene but that scene was heavy, dramatic and so rewarding. It solved one of the problems I had been thinking of since build 0.2 and I loved to see how happy Asterion was after that. Also, it adds so much meaning to one of the items you teased before, again , not saying which one. Also, thank you for the lore drops menu, it makes keeping track of all of them so much easier.
The inclusion of the Hitherlands and the hades chapter were packed full of information, though of different types and value. I always enjoy getting glimpses of Asterion's past, the story of the Bull of Minos, straight from his mouth. This time, it showed a side of the bull we haven't seen much and perhaps one we could get to see at some point. I enjoyed the way you carried the conversations in that part, it reminded me of when I read the Odyssey and some other classical stories. On the other hand we got the Hitherlands, I was not prepared for storms appearance when the chapter started but wow, that was a very nice surprise, As someone who read the novelization (and thank you for providing that too), I was already prepared to like this character but once more you blew my expectations away with dynamite-like writing. I thoroughly enjoyed how P and Storm played on each other, the many hidden sides they both revealed on their conversation and actions. The small animation on Storm was a cute touch and a great wait to characterize him. At the same time, they answered some world building questions I didn't know I had, and they did so seamlessly. Good work on that one too. I can't wait to see what will happen once the two bulls meet and what inheritance P could be speaking of.
Well, I think that covers the characters and the story. Now, onto the music. Well, risking sounding like a broken record, I thoroughly enjoyed the new tracks too. They added a new vibe to old scenes and to new ones as well, it was also easier to get lost in the game with it and they all seem to fit together well. At least to my ears. It was nice to hear the lyre song whenever it came up and sometimes I took a bit more time than necessary just listening to it.
Well, that was a larger wall of text than I thought I could make, so I'll leave it there. Thank you so much for the hard work MInoHotel team, you have crafted one of the best VNs I have ever played. I hope you can all keep growing in your respective fields and that you enjoy your time spent in this project. Nicely done
Hello! Thank you for your wonderful comment. I'm always glad when I hear from someone who played the ruthless content and understood why we put it.
Now, 0.4 did not add new content to the ruthless route. This was a conscious choice, and the reason is that the next piece of content for it contains information which would spoil 0.5. To make it work as we intended it can only be published when we get to a specific point of the story.
To give you an analogy, we didn't intend on the ruthless content being as long as the regular route... Instead we went at it with the premise going all-out, no holds barred in terms of writing style. We are more creative with how the content is written, we exercise a bit more of our stylistic skills, we show more of our cards. It's meant to reveal a whole other side to Asterion, to show what are the consequences of mistreating someone. So we won't remove the ruthless route. I'd say removing it would be akin to removing an important part of Asterion's character.
But it is going towards an end, yes, and we still need more time to make it work. It's going to be intense.
I'd like to hear from you again when we release 0.5 to see what you think of it, and to gather more suggestions on how we could make the whole thing flow better and more coherently. Right now our focus is writing new content, but after 0.5 is done I'd like to do some editing to perfect previous sections of the story.
Thank you for your wonderfully thoughtful comment.
(Edited to expand a bit, because I was sleepy when I wrote this comment.)
Thank you both for your incredible responses, they were such a relief. It's comforting to know that this incredibly written route of the game won't be neglected and I can't wait to see how the cruel story progresses/ends in the 5.0 update! It makes perfect sense for the route to end in the next version after reflecting on Kota and Luke's dialogue in the picnic scene, and it'll be exciting to contrast how the two routes play out in 5.0.
Thank you again for the incredibly quick responses, and the opportunity to give feedback on this exceptional game.
Shiiiit... I was planning on doing a ruthless route eventually, but seeing how that second paragraph made me actually kinda sick I think I'll pass. This leaves me only to wonder how Minotaur Hotel's writing is used in such situations. Thanks for talking about this though!
The Ruthless route shows a different side to Asterion. For people who play Minotaur Hotel as one would play a detective game it gives a lot to think about.
But it's an extra, and one we knew from the start is not for everyone. The game, after all, is about doing the right thing, so having a stretch of content about doing everything morally wrong should be repulsive for most.
That said we think that when it's all said and done people will appreciate the ruthless content because it will serve as contrast. It shows what bad things can happen, and the regular route of the game will be sweeter, more enjoyable when people know what an ethical, humane conduct avoided.
To clarify what Minoanon said, the option to be cruel to Asterion is an optional but important part of the game, and the content from the previous builds is going to stay there.
When you get to the end of 0.3 the game will split, if you treated Asterion well you will continue to build 0.4's content and the rest of the game from there, but if you got the bad ending you will be directed to content specific for the cruel master that wraps up his story. As you see in 0.4, Luke and Kota won't even tolerate the player having the option to mistreat Asterion and will quit if he doesn't accept the ring contract, clearly there's no way the story can carry on like nothing happened if you abuse Asterion. It's gonna need its own conclusion.
We're really happy to hear that you gave this route a shot and understand the purpose of that content, even if most players don't want to see it (which is perfectly valid). Hope we don't disappoint with 0.5's content.
[More spoilers ahead]
I had a few thoughts about this! Initially, I assumed the peacock had something to do with the myth of Argus Panoptes: acording to Ovid, Juno (Hera) saved Argus's eyes and set them in the peacock's tail after he was slain by Mercury (Hermes). It's also interesting given that, in Hermes's shrine, you can see two peacock feathers on the table whose colouration match P's.
Obvious points against this:
Oh cool. I did know of Argus Panoptes but I didn't know the story! Keeping everything MinoHotel in Hellenistic myth does make for some tasty, tasty cohesion too.
(Spoilers/Speculation Ahead)
Also, I think you are on to something else. You see, Panoptes was slain by order of Zeus because he was protecting Io, who (in the world of MinoHotel) could very well be not just a heifer but a minotaur herself. This could make a link between P, descendant of the servant of Hera who watched over a minotaur, and Storm, a man whose father was (very likely) a minotaur himself and possible descendant of Io. This could also connect to what was told to Asterion in Hades about others like him.
Though I think this is all VERY MUCH related; HOW they are related still has me pondering. We might need more pieces to this puzzle.
OOOOOOH WHAAAAT
[Spoilers and speculation continue]
I didn't even get close to making the connection with Io being transformed into a heifer! Based on what Asterion heard in Hades, I was guessing minotaur births were just something that *waves hands* just happen every so often in Crete, and that was the source and extent of the lore. Connecting that to Io is quite elegant; perhaps some sort of matrilineal descent from her line?
It's possible that Argos, the "caretaker," is the actual stand-in for Argus Panoptes ("all-seeing"). His name is spelled Argus in my (modern, English) copy of Metamorphoses, but looking on Wikipedia the original Greek name is spelled with an omicron; normally that would be romanised as an o, Argus is just how Ovid Latinised it.
…which is a long-winded way of saying Argus and Argos are variant spellings of the same Greek word. That tempts me to say the P–Panoptes theory is overthinking things, but frankly:
the authors are super detail-oriented people who are also overthinking everything—probably more than us. ;)
You betcha!
Since we have not only established the authors' commitment to detail, but our own too . . .
[Not only do spoilers and speculation continue, but are explored beyond reasonable measure]
There are a few things that have unlike escaped the authors' attention, so neither should they escape ours!
First, having brought up Io, it behooves us to consider Europa, who was brought to Crete by Zeus in the form of a white bull and purported mother to King Minos! That makes three different god-touched white bovines (Io, Europa, and the lurching bull-father of Asterion) that could have some role to play in the story of how Asterion arrived in his particular predicament.
Second, while Asterion reports (along with mythic reception) that his father was an "ordinary" bull, besides simple deception, illusions have been established (the passports), and he also mentions that it may have had some effect on his mother, Pasiphaë - myth suggests that direct contact with the divine can have . . . permanent effects. (RIP Semele). Now, it's also possible that King Minos was in fact Asterion's father, and was in fact a minotaur too, but couldn't openly live as such. (This would also be a great opportunity to explore Asterion and his family's ethnicity as Minoan/Mycenaean/Phoenician/Colchian and the influence of having a mainland presence on Crete and in Knossos - I mean, his name is Asterion, which would have to be a Mycenaean {early Greek} name, and the minotaur motif doesn't appear on sealstones until the Mycenaean occupation, but I won't develop this any further than this windy parenthetical apophasis/praeteritio.) So maybe Asterion's father is mortal (man, bull-cum-man, bull), but . . .
Third - and this is an interesting one - Zeus as Zeus Xenios. He's the god of hospitality, travelers, and strangers. This is concerns a bedrock (yeah I'll get to the bedrock later. Actually, no I won't. The bedrock could be crystalized ichor. Which could also imply some other things but not now) concept of the visual novel, folks! One of Zeus' major responsibilities and purviews is philoxenia, or xenia, which, ostensibly, is a core Minotaur Hotel theme. Look, Zeus comes with a lot of baggage. Is he philandering? Is he selfish? Is he overfond of being over-generative? Is he petty and puny? Is he the possible syncretistic bridge between a much, much earlier myth tradition as represented by the "titans" and meant to be the patricidal god figure that unifies myth-history in the Aegean basin? Perhaps! But besides already showing a close affection for and as white cows, besides being Very Important on Crete - not only born on Crete, but tradition on Crete also purports that he lived as a mortal on the island and died there, too - besides having sent Hermes to slay Argos Panoptes that he may recover Io (and could in some part explain Argos' enmity and exaggerated piety), besides all those things regarding Zeus' comportment; Asterion has been running what is essentially a cult to Zeus for a very long time now. Whether or not that signifies future incursion of Zeus into the realm, that the line of minotaurs mentioned in Hades' are direct descendants of Zeus, or that Asterion himself is a son of Zeus, is hard to tell. Which is good! Discovery is titillating! (Okay, Posiedon could also be in that family tree, but one god or so at a time, please)
Okay. Last one. If Storm is related to Asterion in any way through a line of hemi-demi-semi-divine minotaurs (anthropomorphic bull men but I already suggested that minotaurs are possibly related to Minos maybe so there could be more than THE minotaur), it's possible that - Storm's eventual presence in the Labyrinth may allow P to manipulate some rules, and it also could be something foreshadowed by Asterion's fear that freedom is only possible by trading one's shackles to someone else. (He did say that, right? Am I misremembering?)
That's it for this installment of Wall Of Text™!
Yeah, I after replaying from the start, I came to the conclusion that it's waaay more likely that bull-people in Crete are a reference to Europa & Zeus-Taurus (with it all revolving around the dang island for one). However, in the world of MinoHotel, Minos (foster-father of Asterion) is a descendant of Minos (son of Europa); that also would explain the "men of certain Cretan lineage with bull features" that Asterion hears of in Hades. I can even believe Minos (father of Ariadne) is totally unaware of his bull lineage otherwise it could be strange for him to shun Asterion so vehemently, even if he thought of him a cannibal. It wouldn't surprise me to see the concept of glamour showing up in his backstory.
Now, if you allow me, Imma RUN with your idea of the bedrock being crystal ichor. I wouldn't rule out Zeus Xenios of playing a role in the Hotel itself, but in regards to the basement I think differently. You see, there are two ichor-bearers that were killed in Crete. First one, of course is Argos Panoptes (the giant) killed by Hermes; then there was the giant Talos, killed by the Argonauts (which is debatable). Not only were these two giants (one a literal giant and the other a giant in size) killed in Crete; their blood was important, Panoptes' being the first blood spilled among gods after the Olympians took over and Talos' being specifically made with a single vein of ichor; but also while Argos met his end through Hermes, Jason, descendant of Hermes, led the Argonauts who in turn ended Talos. Whose shrine is at the bedrock? Frickin' Hermes'. It might be all connected! I think the possibility of ichor on the bedrock being (at least partially) Talos', makes sense of it's command-driven nature of it's functionality. Lastly ichor is said to be nocive to mortals, which checks with Asterion's advice to not touch it.
Also I believe you are right on the money about Storm and his potential to cause trouble in the Hotel.
No substantive contributions, I just want to interject:
Hmm...although I think this theory is pretty interesting, I forsee two problems with Storm being related to Io.
1. Although certainly skin color can change through the generations and through intermarriage, Io was a white heifer and storm is pretty dark. It's not out of the question, but with a number of other bulls throughout myth and MinoTeam being pretty detailed, the color change is not insignificant
2. If I recall correctly, Io ended up in egypt at the end of the story. Although it's not out of the question to have a egypt->moors->portuguese->brazil migration of Io's descendants, it's another narrative obstacle.
But hey, love y'all's theories. Y'all are bringing up a lot of good points. I was telling my friend that we should start a wiki to help keep track of info.
He's too dark?
At the end of some free-wheeling speculation over a fictional fantasy furry visual novel with a magical hotel set in a metaphysical labyrinth and a main character that can change appearance at will, the constraint that we want to fixate on is that Storm is too dark to maybe be distantly related to a mythical character?
Kopten, if I may call you that, I don't relish singling you out, but you just touched on a few things that can't be left unexamined.
One - and most importantly - any attempt to ligature race, ethnicity, and skin color to limited physical attributes of animals/anthropomorphic animals/androids/physical projections of A.I./an animated fucking toaster is inherently damaging and toxic and dangerous to members of the community, e.g. trying to treat fur color as a analogue to skin color. This is racial essentialism. This hurts all of us and limits us, but worst of all it singles out and excludes people of color in the furry community by attempting to remove agency from how they represent and explore themselves.
Two - maybe due to a misunderstanding or maybe a misapprehension of inherited traits I think it is worth pointing out that it is entirely possible for a white cow to be closely or directly related to a black cow. And, just so we're clear, it is also entirely possible for a dark skinned person to be directly related to a light skinned person. But, see point above, let this point go. Set it free. (Okay, also before I set it free, frequently the telling of these myths point out that the white cow is a meant to be a fated occurrence - a sign, omen, message, gift. Not herds of cattle of a certain color - okay those exist too sometimes in legend and myth like in some worship of Apis but not the point to take away from this.)
Three - I admit to leaving the door open on this one by playing fast, loose, and unscrupulous while discussing myth, so I'm going to state some things that I hope are obvious and maybe a couple less-obvious things too:
a) Myth ain't real! It may be honest, it may be revealing, and re-interpreting it can be liberating, but it's just a social construct meant to reify power through narrative. So don't think we owe mythic tradition anything, because people have been meddling with it for millennia. Most of the versions of myth we have been discussing are relatively late, often the most popular, traded and translated and retranslated again and again, and there are usually twenty other tellings, some of which omit whole characters or invent places and new plots. It matters whose telling it is. Whose translation. Whose edition of that same translation. There is no "true" version. No one true unifying myth or retelling (looking at you, Robert Graves). Actually, there've been many references to Ovid's Metamorphoses. Care to guess some of what Ovid is exploring? Myth! Power! Agency! Narrative mutability! In fact, if any of you have time, go read Ovid right now. You can read it in Latin or English with the translations side by side like the Loeb editions! Take and read!
b) While we were playing around trying to create as many concordances in the popular tradition of myth around Crete, Asterion, Io, Europa, Minos, and Pasiphaë, the endeavoring to draw that line from Io down to Storm through the migration of real ethnic groups is a great example of how myth is really used by nations and states to create arbitrary boundaries and in-groups. This can be another dangerous and misleading game meant to lend legitimacy to nationalism, ethnocentrism, and all kinds of trouble (read: fucked up shit.) Autochthony doesn't have to be alienating, and don't let me catch anybody trying to remove any kind of sovereignty from Indigenous peoples, but it as soon as it is used to enforce some kind of impossible ethnic homogeneity . . . And look, myth in all forms (oral tradition, religious tradition through text, etc.) are particularly important to diaspora communities, but when the interpreter of this story uses the myth to exclude those who don't resemble those in power currently shaping the mythic history, we land back at trouble (F.U.S.) So many nations do this or some derivative of it (I don't HAVE TIME today for discussing manifest destiny in these United States of America). SPEAKING OF MANIFEST DESTINY - another reading rec - revisit the Aeneid. In addition to many other things it is Roman propaganda reinforcing that the line of Roman monarchy wends back to Troy (its also kinda Augustan fanficiton). AND ALSO even in the microcosm of the Aegean basin diaspora in the is a constant! From the (many) Bronze Age depopulations, to the massive 1923 forced population exchange to the very current influx of migrants (who, by the way, are definitely being excluded in part using the exact apparatus we are discussing).
c) It's a fantasy! The authors have the license to take whatever liberties they desire! And so far they have not made any sort of indication that if Storm is meant to be coded Afro-Brazilian that they will use that against him. They could reveal anything they choose too about any character - Luke could be a literal physical manifestation of American patriotism (ala American Gods - also definitely not the point I am trying to make), Storm could be from folklore, the Olympians, an entirely novel manifestation of supernatural incident, or some Hittite deity, or just an ordinary man! I am not interested nor going to abide projection of casual, invented, racial limitations - intentional or unintentional.
Sorry y'all. I done rambled. And Kopten, you are not uniquely guilty of these things - but you just happened to land smack-dab in the middle of field in which I ruminate daily.
So, for your trouble, here's a shorter, neater response.
TL;DR
Don't try to enforce colorism, please, not in the world, not in furry fantasy, and let us take a long and uncomfortable look at ourselves when we are trying to so.
Tawerut,
Thank you for the response and the critique. Looking back, I realize that my habits of being brief with my words / assuming other people are sharing my headspace/writing late at night in this instance has produced an impression/conclusion that is not what I believe AND indeed my previous conceptions about greek myth limited my frame of view. I am going to respond, not to excuse what I said, but to offer a context as to what I was thinking at the time, which I realize is a bit too little, too late at this point.
"any attempt to ligature race, ethnicity, and skin color to limited physical attributes of animals/anthropomorphic animals/androids/physical projections of A.I./an animated fucking toaster is inherently damaging and toxic and dangerous to members of the community, e.g. trying to treat fur color as a analogue to skin color. This is racial essentialism This hurts all of us and limits us, but worst of all it singles out and excludes people of color in the furry community by attempting to remove agency from how they represent and explore themselves. "
>I assure you that this was not my intention to exclude people of color in the furry community or try to remove their agency. I do not wish to invalidate your interpretation.
The latter half of Point Two was the main reason why I wrote what I did. The white Bull form that Zeus took, The white Bull / perhaps Poseidon's form, and Asterion fall into the mythological pattern you mentioned. Patterns are important, both in mythology but also in how Mino tells its story. I too made the mental connection with Argos and Io, and pondered if she would have some part to play in the story. It would be cool if that were the case.
I am aware that in genetics, traits can not be phenotypically be represented but can be genotypically represented. My point was that at this point it is an unsettled question how if he was a descendant of Io, how if Io had cow genes, how those would interact with those of his human parent(s). When I said "problem", I meant more of a narrative obstacle that would have to be explained. I am very fine with saying that coat phenotypes could have changed over time and could be influenced by those of his parents. My point is that it's one motif/narrative step removed from fitting as neatly into the established pattern, and I am very happy to expand that pattern.
I articulated this point poorly in my original post, I admit.
I have enjoyed reading Ovid's Metamorphoses and the Aeneid for my latin class in high school, but thank you for the recommendation. MY favorite Ovid translations has the muses vs a group of nymphs doing a rap battle in meter, and it's one of the best things ever.
3a- I agree and have enjoyed how the MinoTeam has adapted myths so far. If team mino wants to turn a pattern on its head (i.e. what I thought Disney was going to do with Rei before she was retconned to be a Palpatine), I welcome it.
3b-I'm not quite sure I understand the point in 3b. I.e. I understand and agree with what you're saying, but I'm unsure on how it relates to the topic at hand, apologies, I am dense boi.
3c- I agree. My motivation behind that is that at least for Luke, a connection was made between him and his greek griffin ancestry, and something I would like to see is if storm is related to Io, I would at least like to get an idea of how her bovine descendants ended up in South America and if these cow traits popped up before . In addition, we have a lot of greek myth represented right now, it seems Koda and maybe the kobalds are the only non-greek myth. I personally would like to see some other myth sources being drawn from. Again, it's fine if he is a descendant of io, but it'd be cool as well if he was from another realm of myth.
tl;dr. I apologize if my short response inadvertently enforced colorist / traditional ideas surrounding mythology. I will try to be more cognizant about talking about things of this subject in the future / better articulating my points.
I appreciate your earnestness! I appreciate your thoughtfulness!
No, you are not dense, the point I attempted to make at 3b simply unspooled further and faster than I intended.
What I should have said is that there are many popular interpretations of antiquity and myth that maintain a very narrow and nearly exclusively white vision of who have made meaningful contributions. These interpretations are as popular with ordinary people as they are with academia and white supremacist organizations (like Identity Evropa). With the consistent recapitulation of these narrow interpretations, marginalized people find themselves excluded from the discourse and cannot see themselves in antiquity and myth and are made distinctly uncomfortable in the spaces in which they are enjoyed. When people of color and queer people and disabled people and people of transgender experience are excluded from the discourse about the Past, they are also excluded from the story of the Past. Then the cycle perpetuates itself.
Maybe that makes more sense, maybe it really doesn't, but I am grateful that you were listening at all. I am also grateful to the Mino team for creating a story with room enough that we even got here.
Thank you.
. . . and I too mourn a meaningful arc for Rey. And for Finn.
Rereading this a couple of days later (the ichor hypothesis is just, wow) and caught this:
| KoptenOwl said: |
|---|
| "MY favorite Ovid translations has the muses vs a group of nymphs doing a rap battle in meter" |
…that's amazing, if you remember the translation I'd love to check it out! 😁
The highlight of mine was Latreus trash-talking Caeneus—"Caeneus, you bitch!"—making a pun on his original sex and name, Caenis. (I never studied Latin, just had a very long commute, so unsure how big a liberty the translator took.)
Metamorphoses, a new tranlation by charles martin, pg 173. Picture on the cover of my edition is a femboi faun
The true Brazil was inside of you all along!
Yes, P and Storm are Brazilian. The Hinterlands are in Brazil too, in the Northeast.
You have no idea how happy brazilians get when someone references Brazil, also i bet that at least the bull has that sertão accent
Oh I think our dearest writer has some idea. *wink* *wink* *nudge* *nudge*
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"nanoff and I come from Argentina and Brazil respectively" -MinoAnon
[spoiler time]
Yeah I've kinda thought about it without exactly how to phrase it. I don't even know if it actually is criticism but, that Lead Ring reeks of Chekhov's gun. I did the pact anyway of course, but it really puts me on edge for future events.
I didn't expect Asterion to fill out again with the last healing, he got real beefy. I'm happy with the writing placing emphasis on the difference in size between the master and Asterion so thanks for that.
I also enjoyed Storm's sprites, particularly the proud one. He seems like a cute character although probably difficult to get along with.
The teams and exploration game modes seem like fun addition and I like obtaining the lore and hints. I feel like the game will become very expansive with a cast of 8 guests and the addition of choosing who to spend the day with.
I leave you with this.
This has kinda been answered. If you allow me.
"Back when I wrote the original Minotaur Hotel draft, Asterion was imagined as a 100% bottom with a submissive streak.
[...] when we get to the sexual content with Asterion we have a very firm guiding principle: it always has to be in-character. He has likes and dislikes.
[...]
Meanwhile, topping is a pretty jarring and intimidating idea for him — he can't see himself doing that to a 'Master."' - MinoAnon
You can read the full response here, if you want. Although... this is somewhat old response, and things could have changed.
Based Maty.
Yes, what Matydos pointed out is correct. We planned for Asterion to be a total bottom, it's hard for me to even imagine him being dominant. That said my stance has softened a bit. I plan on putting in an option for the player character to bottom for Asterion — but it'd only come around in the endgame and if certain conditions are met.
That said Asterion will always be a submissive boy. He doesn't have the harshness to be dominant towards the MC!
That was my first reaction too! I felt so forced at first. Not only put myself to such risk, but how doing so could also be turned against the good guys. Once, I even called the ring a Chekhov's gun. I will first and foremost suggest you take the options you think are right as all options given are valid. That, said I could only truly understand what the Oath of Rings actually means (both in the narrative and thematically) once I saw the aftermath of accepting it. I recommend trying it out when you have the chance.
The aftermath of accepting it? You mean just the rest of that scene or is there an update to the game that I'm somehow overlooking?
I did overlook the description of the Oath of the Binding Rings that gets added to the files section, that describes it as a "blasphemous contract that defies the gods' will", but none of the characters seem to show any concern for that, including the MC,
Personally, given the example of what happened to Asterion, I'd think twice and many times more before possibly poking that kind of cosmic hornet's nest. Especially by even going so far as to make a permanent and visible "fuck you, gods" badge as an open sign of defiance for any god waking up from its slumber to see.
Though, Argos would probably be happy to have a new friend he could make lampshades with.
You are missing no updates, mon frère. I indeed mean the scene that takes place right after accepting it. I fear I lack the skill to say what I mean by "truly understand what the Oath of Rings means" without just explaining my thought process; and that'd be tedious and maybe even cringe.
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Anyway, here's my thought process.
After you accept the pact, this interaction happens:
You: "Did you expect me to go back on my word now that we are putting consequences on the table?"
Asterion: "Yes, I did. I - I cannot, could not, imagine a Master accepting conditions so absurd."
You've been a saint. You saved the guy, you treated him well (more like decently), you will help him with his thousands-of-years-long project; and yet Asterion said that. It was then that it clicked for me: you are not the first kind person to be a master; hell, you might not even be the nicest person (not at this point anyway).
To the MC, this is like a magical situation of epic proportions; to Asterion it's another piece of an endless cycle. A nice, special piece, but one can imagine how many times Asterion has faced a nice master that turns sour or is followed by an evil one. That will create a sense of mistrust in anyone that bears the title. What this interaction means IMO, is Asterion getting hope that things will be truly different this time. An idea that will come true eventually, since we know they'll be in a romantic relationship.
As to what it means regarding the gods, I have my theories on them which I cannot tie with confidence to anything I said so far. Except, how I said the rings are ominous foreshadowing.
Again, I think you should make the options you think are right. Also, I'm not the master of all truths; I didn't even get max ranking at the end of the build.
Sure, I understand what it means for Asterion. The MC becomes the first master ever to make this kind of arrangement with him. The Rings tie the two characters together, level the playing field if you will, that allows for new possibilities to move the story along. Just as Luke quipped "you may now kiss the bride", that relationship has deepened and expanded.
But as the author responded to me, there was mention that maybe that scene could be revisited a bit. After all, the MC is a modern man who suddenly gets proof that old gods existed, magic is real, and just downstairs is a snake-man who has a holy mandate to torture his new bovine friend. It would seem that there would be at least some hesitation to change the status quo, even if the personal sacrifice involved wasn't a concern at all.
Anyway I agree with you on the ominous foreshadowing: "hundreds came before, but none were so foolish as to do what you are about to." Seemed like an epitaph. But, I suspect the gods that control fate for this gay furry VN are at least kind.
Thank you for your criticism! It helps us a lot when people give us such a thought out write-up on how their experience with the game was.
I am not exactly surprised you felt that way. For a while I had a nagging doubt that the oath could lead to that reaction. Looking back I think some specific bits of that scene could have used more attention. So in a way seeing it put like that is... reassuring? In a weird way, it is reassuring.
Hopefully some of this weirdness will fade a bit during the next update, but chances are we might go back and improve the oath scene down the road. We might not be able to dust off all the weirdness — you are right that Asterion might be asking too much. But we can definitely improve it and it was a learning experience.
So, yeah, thank you for your input.
"What an odd master you are... Hundreds came before, but none were so foolish as to do what you are about to."
Like I said, I'm looking forward to Argos' reaction when he realizes what has been done. That little red cobalt did ask for feedback after all, so is gratifying to know that mine might be helpful. Thank you.
Yeah, that scene did seem a bit jarring and accepting it is definitely a massive risk, but I can see why Asterion did it. I wouldn't trust a stranger with absolute power over me either unless they did something absolutely insane to prove they wouldn't abuse it, especially if people with that power have a history of abusing it.
So yeah, long story short, I did it
Hey Jake!
Yes, we do plan to keep updating the walkthrough. Right now we do have it updated, but spread out over two devlogs which I realise is messy. In the future I'd like to roll out a better, long term solution, but for now here are the two parts.
First part: https://minoh.itch.io/minotaur-hotel/devlog/115458/walkthrough
Second part: https://minoh.itch.io/minotaur-hotel/devlog/189489/build-031-and-minotaur-hotel-...
Ohhh thank you so much for the links! I see now I was just completely missing the second part oops xD
Another creator (Dyne for Exca) uses Google docs for their walkthroughs, might be an option to think about ^^ easily available and versions can be edited via cloud so changes are reflected in real time.
Just a thought!
Hey guys. Thought it'd be good posting the news here for everyone who's been following this thread: now Minotaur Hotel has a Wiki!
It started after a few people mentioned the idea, which stayed on my mind for a good while. Well, eventually I thought it'd be worth a shot. I set up the most basic things about it (and I really mean only the basics) then let Matydos test it and write some initial content at his own pace. Thanks to all his work we think it's robust enough to show it to everyone.
One of the main ideas I had for this Wiki is that it should be a bit more than just a raw encyclopedia about the game's events. The guys and I researched and worked a lot on the mythology that goes in the game. We want people to play detective, and we think the Wiki will be a way to let people discuss theories more thoroughly. It'll also let people who aren't as knowledgeable on these things learn a bit!
Thanks to all of you for being so engaged with the game. Seeing all the discussion that's gone here really makes our day, and I hope we can all have more fun going forward.
Thank you for your kindness. We don't have a Patreon/Ko-fi for the game but if you feel like supporting us I can say that one of our writers, Nemo, is accepting writing commissions and nanoff, our artist, has a Patreon for his comic projects.
Hi! Thank you for your kind comment, it's very much appreciated.
Build 0.4 gave Luke some of the spotlight, so in 0.5 the situation is reversed. Kota gets up to some shenanigans of his own that are a bit central to the plot.
As for P, as the advances his personal reason for looking for the hotel will become clearer. As of Build 0.4 we didn't get the time to let him, pardon the pun, spread his wings. His and Storm's search will, I hope, reveal the interesting things about the two of them and how they both tie back to the main story in multiple levels.
Although I won't go into specifics as to not spoil things, one of their segments has a lot of possible variation depending on your choices — it's a bit like a detective minigame. A lot of the points you raised are touched on there (like what's up with there being a second minotaur), but what you'll see will depend on how you approach it.
About the purple prose: yes, I know it's an issue with my writing. It's one of my flaws, if I don't keep myself in check I tend to go and on. The rounds of editing we do before releasing the content helps a lot but some still slips through the cracks, hopefully I'll have the time (after Build 0.5!) to make a thorough round of editing specifically to reduce it.
I see. I suppose I was too quick to comment after finishing. It seems there was a plan, and that you knew about similar comments. Maybe reading other comments would have given me insight lol. Just leaves more to look forward to from the game then.
Actually the lead thing has been brought up before. Here's the answer:
We didn't get the time to explore it in Chapter 13 but the lead and gold armbands aren't made of actual gold and lead, they merely look like it. So no one's getting poisoned.
You can see the full answer here.
As for the release... we don't have it yet, I don't think. The lads are hard at work on it, that you can be certain. Rest assured 0.5 WILL BE WORTH THE WAIT.
Hey Parasiitti, really glad you're enjoying the game so far.
Adressing point 1, we got some new assets for the next build, including the hotel exterior, so that background is getting replaced. Thank you for pointing it out because it's a good reminder to go over the script for the previous builds and replace all instances of the image, hahaa.
For point 2, the lead and gold armbands are a callback to the myth of Apollo and Daphne, at least Ovid's version of it (pay attention when 0.5 is released because we'll be calling back to it again). I hate to say "a wizard did it", but let's roll with it being magic lead (which it technically is, to be fair) and its prolonged use is not harmful to the main character.
As for an estimated release of 0.5, we'll be making a devlog soon with a progress report for April. We had another really productive month and we're estimating June or July.