Post by skize in Build 0.4 General Discussion

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Spoilers follows.

I've really enjoyed the game right up to the point where the player character gets railroaded into the deal with the rings and doesn't even really raise an objection.

For my first playthrough, MC has been nothing but kindness so far. But it seems like one thing to have the prisoner of the gods work as an hotel employee, and quite another for the master of the labyrinth himself to enter into such a deal where it would be in direct defiance of the gods intent, should one of those gods happen to wake from their slumber and take notice. Given the magical nature of the hotel and Asterion himself surely the MC has at least some concern of befalling a similar fate should he disregard the Labyrinth's purpose in such a brazen manner?

Not only that, wouldn't such an overt sign of disrespect possibly pose a danger to the hotel itself and perhaps even the guests inside on the chance that the MC invoke the gods judgement himself?

I feel like no matter the noble intentions, the MC is just too careless and a pushover. He doesn't even get a choice in the type of materials (lead, why? mortal here, remember?)

I want to tell Asterion "No, this is a needless risk; this time you ask too much. I've promised and swore to you I would make the mission of the hotel my life's work, but it's very existence is a daily reminder to tread carefully or risk disaster should the gods still care for this world. If the master of the labyrinth must be the tormentor of the prisoner, then that torment shall be expecting you to learn to trust me when I when I say I'll never send you out into the Valley, no matter what."

If that's not good enough for Kota or Luke, then they have their own choices to make, I won't be coerced into doing something so short sighted and reckless.

Please don't take this as a criticism really, more just as a sign of just how immersed I've been in this game. I'm looking forward to Argos' reaction when he sees what the MC has done. Thanks for making this!

Matydos3 years ago (1 edit) (+1)

That was my first reaction too! I felt so forced at first. Not only put myself to such risk, but how doing so could also be turned against the good guys. Once, I even called the ring a Chekhov's gun. I will first and foremost suggest you take the options you think are right as all options given are valid. That, said I could only truly understand what the Oath of Rings actually means (both in the narrative and thematically) once I saw the aftermath of accepting it. I recommend trying it out when you have the chance.

skize3 years ago(+2)

The aftermath of accepting it? You mean just the rest of that scene or is there an update to the game that I'm somehow overlooking?

I did overlook the description of the Oath of the Binding Rings that gets added to the files section, that describes it as a "blasphemous contract that defies the gods' will", but none of the characters seem to show any concern for that, including the MC,

Personally, given the example of what happened to Asterion, I'd think twice and many times more before possibly poking that kind of cosmic hornet's nest. Especially by even going so far as to make a permanent and visible "fuck you, gods" badge as an open sign of defiance for any god waking up from its slumber to see.

Though, Argos would probably be happy to have a new friend he could make lampshades with.

Matydos3 years ago (1 edit) (+3)

You are missing no updates, mon frère. I indeed mean the scene that takes place right after accepting it. I fear I lack the skill to say what I mean by "truly understand what the Oath of Rings means" without just explaining my thought process; and that'd be tedious and maybe even cringe.

Anyway, here's my thought process.

After you accept the pact, this interaction happens:

You: "Did you expect me to go back on my word now that we are putting consequences on the table?"
Asterion: "Yes, I did. I - I cannot, could not, imagine a Master accepting conditions so absurd."

You've been a saint. You saved the guy, you treated him well (more like decently), you will help him with his thousands-of-years-long project; and yet Asterion said that. It was then that it clicked for me: you are not the first kind person to be a master; hell, you might not even be the nicest person (not at this point anyway).

To the MC, this is like a magical situation of epic proportions; to Asterion it's another piece of an endless cycle. A nice, special piece, but one can imagine how many times Asterion has faced a nice master that turns sour or is followed by an evil one. That will create a sense of mistrust in anyone that bears the title. What this interaction means IMO, is Asterion getting hope that things will be truly different this time. An idea that will come true eventually, since we know they'll be in a romantic relationship.

As to what it means regarding the gods, I have my theories on them which I cannot tie with confidence to anything I said so far. Except, how I said the rings are ominous foreshadowing.

Again, I think you should make the options you think are right. Also, I'm not the master of all truths; I didn't even get max ranking at the end of the build.

skize3 years ago(+4)

Sure, I understand what it means for Asterion. The MC becomes the first master ever to make this kind of arrangement with him. The Rings tie the two characters together, level the playing field if you will, that allows for new possibilities to move the story along. Just as Luke quipped "you may now kiss the bride", that relationship has deepened and expanded.

But as the author responded to me, there was mention that maybe that scene could be revisited a bit. After all, the MC is a modern man who suddenly gets proof that old gods existed, magic is real, and just downstairs is a snake-man who has a holy mandate to torture his new bovine friend. It would seem that there would be at least some hesitation to change the status quo, even if the personal sacrifice involved wasn't a concern at all.

Anyway I agree with you on the ominous foreshadowing: "hundreds came before, but none were so foolish as to do what you are about to." Seemed like an epitaph. But, I suspect the gods that control fate for this gay furry VN are at least kind.

Minoh Workshop3 years ago(+1)

Thank you for your criticism! It helps us a lot when people give us such a thought out write-up on how their experience with the game was.

I am not exactly surprised you felt that way. For a while I had a nagging doubt that the oath could lead to that reaction. Looking back I think some specific bits of that scene could have used more attention. So in a way seeing it put like that is... reassuring? In a weird way, it is reassuring.

Hopefully some of this weirdness will fade a bit during the next update, but chances are we might go back and improve the oath scene down the road. We might not be able to dust off all the weirdness — you are right that Asterion might be asking too much. But we can definitely improve it and it was a learning experience.

So, yeah, thank you for your input.

skize3 years ago(+2)

"What an odd master you are... Hundreds came before, but none were so foolish as to do what you are about to."

Like I said, I'm looking forward to Argos' reaction when he realizes what has been done. That little red cobalt did ask for feedback after all, so is gratifying to know that mine might be helpful. Thank you.

Vibin' Voidy3 years ago(+3)

Yeah, that scene did seem a bit jarring and accepting it is definitely a massive risk, but I can see why Asterion did it. I wouldn't trust a stranger with absolute power over me either unless they did something absolutely insane to prove they wouldn't abuse it, especially if people with that power have a history of abusing it.

So yeah, long story short, I did it

itch.io

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