Post by GH-MrSomebody in Default Route (w/o cheating)

Viewing post in Default Route (w/o cheating)

I'm guessing you trained Daisy everyday? (or at least 3x or more) [anyway the +20 (Alchemist post) makes a lot more sense]

OK, Just a *GUESS* (so far) [not even going to *TOUCH* all the issues w the new 5.4! (see new post) UGH!]

--->>> ***BIGGEST*** DIFFERENCE (so far) I know of, between how you do stuff, & how I (normally/usually) do stuff [Quests aside] is *UPGRADES*.
By the time you factor in 3-4++ Upgrades (& I bought more tools, leather collars, & worker's suits) that's a *LOT* lot more materials (or gold equivalent) by D28 [most of my oldest saves where I did upgrades *PLUS* all easy quests R deleted. (older versions have more problems w saves/imports) ]
In hindsight, it makes sense---*IF* you're doing *MED* Quests; (maybe fewer collars & no extra lux rooms?)
EASY Q's [like you did] just don't pay as much XP or gold, so everything takes longer.

Learned *LOTS* of tricks since started this thread (FYI that was over a *MONTH* ago! lol) ----but it's also changed at least 2 versions since then too. [1 of them being more Hunter/fisher for Wits & gold]

BTW did you *ONLY* do DRs [Dungeon Runs] for Quests? Did you do any Med ones, or just easy? [Easy = Goblins/Bandits]

I checked ~ every other day----& did see: At least 1 char w "grave injury" (can't fight, reduced production) [I try very hard to avoid that] & 1 "starving" (lack of food) -----COOKING is one thing I didn't used to do----but now do a lot more. (it's generally worth it---stretches food to last longer, + help Wit char get more XP)

BTW (since I see you have/got it) Is there any use for Troll's Blood?

I don't see any of your hookers made into Succubus, do you not like them?
I also only see 1 staff (I assume from DRs) you never bought a 2nd staff?!? [makes you Mages much weaker! ----ok, but also saves gold---they aren't cheap!]
(usually I'd either make or buy something---so everybody had a weapon, & then upgrade them later if the weapon was crappy... lol [I'm sure on some of my runs I just spent *WAY* too much] )
Also looks like you only bought armor for ~ half (?) your "military?" [looks like hooker/fighter/dual role]
I'm sure every little thing like that added up (I spent a lot more [or at least did on some runs] than you did---esp *EARLY* on [b4 D21] )

The "Servants" thing----is that a MIN of 300 Guild points, or what? [I don't see it until you have 336 *Servants* GPs ]
maybe that's something new for 5.4? (never saw it before, but many Servants Q [usually "assignment" or "servant wanted" ] I had to skip---they're actually easier @ *MED* lvl (w upgrades!) than some of the "easy" ones! )

"Personal Bank"----I see you too (others have mentioned having to do this----1 more reason finish Greedy Bank Quest ASAP!) also saved up the 3k gold! (several days in advance)
I started doing that later on [*BUT* if you can "*FINISH*" b4 ~ (?) D24? (D22? no exact # but the closer you get, the more you need that savings...) ]-----Mostly b4 I did a lot of Med Quests.

WOW! Where did you get your "CRAFTSMAN SUIT?" ! [obviously not from crafting...]

Did you skip any quests? [Usually for me Workers R one of the easiest ones, & yours was the lowest GP]

From my orig (very 1st) post:
"[if you're giving general hints/advice, *PLEASE* make sure is possible in 1st 21 days (fighting tooth & nail just to still have 2 sell most of what you have 2 pay Greedy BANK on D 28, is *NOT* fun. ]"
(even back then finished some of them----but *MOST* of them sucked!) -->> I think in general, you had a lot more gold b/c:
1) you did a lot of DRs (2? 3? Can't tell from you saves, But I'm guessing at least 2 easy & at LEAST 1 Med?)
[when I 1st make this thread I wasn't doing any]
2) Compared to me (or at least "back then" lol) you saved more & spent less---a LOT less. [even for armor/weapons] --> Ex: I only counted *ONE* staff, even at D28! [a decent staff can cost over 1k gold EASY! ]

Curious, did u Fight the Lich, or talk out of it? (another trick learned since then)
(only 1 char has Dark Resist----but I think the F-5 [Physics] is enough to talk out of it.
[Several char w high dam----you fought?]

Oh, the "UPGRADING" advice thing: *YES*, you got lots of gold (mostly from your DRs i think----*BUT* you also didn't finish till D28, & paid the [Greedy] Bank their 3k gold. Done (? have not kept good track) 3-5+? runs where finished *WELL BEFORE* D28, *MOSTLY*, using 1) *MED* Quests & 2) Upgrades. [Some "Impossible" Quests---either make me take way too long, or give up. But *LUCK* plays a part ----maybe even bigger in 5.4?]

With all your runs, did you come up against any unusually Tough chars? [like that EVASION 60! 1 I ran into early on!]

Oh, in case you missed it, the Hunter/Fisher idea was one got from someone else. (didn't have that 2 months ago when 1st posted this)
D14 (1k) rarely a problem, but in general (ck above) I *SPENT* a lot more than you did. (would've bought a staff for each mage; 2 Mages = 750-1k EACH, so there's another 2k gold... )

Obedience: looks like you used you maid a lot (Allure) + your Hookers (like fishers) didn't travel much. 5 member combat team [vs 6] & one *DID* have a leather collar ---but generally you have 1) Allure +2) much less travel. (Obed decays a lot faster w travel)
It's very similar to fishing tactics I've seen/used. (Except for the DRs]

Eiyal3 years ago

Didn't saw your post as I was already writing one (I take a lot of time to write).

"I'm guessing you trained Daisy everyday?"

Nope, not at all. I have other slaves to train. At 52 Wits her damaging spells are strong enough and she heals decently.

"EASY Q's [like you did] just don't pay as much XP or gold, so everything takes longer. "

At the beginning the easy quests are there just for the REP, eventually the reward can be good like a weapon or an armor. I don't do them for the money.

"I checked ~ every other day----& did see: At least 1 char w "grave injury" (can't fight, reduced production) [I try very hard to avoid that] & 1 "starving" (lack of food) "

Twice I think my characters fells in combat, usually I try to avoid that too but well can't be optimal everytime. For the starving it was an oversight and I bought food the next day I think.

"BTW (since I see you have/got it) Is there any use for Troll's Blood? "

It is used for Alchemy I think. In the previous version I didn't have time to actually use it before the current update.

"I don't see any of your hookers made into Succubus, do you not like them?"

One of them is, I got the class late since I used a low growth character, usually I get them sooner.

"I also only see 1 staff (I assume from DRs) you never bought a 2nd staff?!? [makes you Mages much weaker! ----ok, but also saves gold---they aren't cheap!]"

Bingo, looting can give good rewards, until then a club is fine and no I never bought a staff.

My mages, weak? try them you'll see they can very much kill things. Why should I buy expensives weapons when 1) I have a debt to repay 2) I can already kill everything I see

I do at least give a weapon for everybody, kill things faster and less time spent healing.

"Also looks like you only bought armor for ~ half (?) your "military?""

Ah that was me being unlucky in the shop rolls, mostly no armor at all spawning or heavy armor that almost nobody can wear facepalm.

5 combattants are enough early game, 4 is the absolute minimum for me. Only later you'll need full team full stuffed, for now debt comes first.

"The "Servants" thing----is that a MIN of 300 Guild points, or what? "

I don't know, it's new in this version.

"Personal Bank"

I have the 3k in case I don't finish the REP quest, I don't care if I finish before or after D28 personnally. To tell you the truth, after the elections you'll have more gold than you need. you'll be more in needs of materials to craft better stuff. Gold will be nearly useless by then. Also you can take your time to leisurely upgrade your mansion and roleplay, that's where the fun is.

"WOW! Where did you get your "CRAFTSMAN SUIT?" ! [obviously not from crafting...] "

Grin obviously from looting, dungeons chests can have good surprises in them.

I skipped 2 quests at the beginning, 1 with the workers wanting a tool (never spawned in shops) and the 2nd the Servants wanted someone for 3 days.

"1) you did a lot of DRs?"

I didn't count them, it is mentioned in the logs, a couples per week I would say. I did a Bandit Fort (MED) that's where some of my combattants felled, had to retreat.

"2) Compared to me (or at least "back then" lol) you saved more & spent less---a LOT less.

[even for armor/weapons] --> Ex: I only counted *ONE* staff, even at D28! [a decent staff can cost over 1k gold EASY! ] "

"You become richer the less you spend" or so the saying says? I don't waste money, I invest where it is needed, if it doesn't improve or isn't needed I keep the gold for a future investment. I didn't need to improve my team as they kill everything I need to kill, I won't go into the Ancient Jungle as I don't need to go there, If it was needed I would have to invest in more equipments because then what I have would not be enough.

"Curious, did u Fight the Lich, or talk out of it? "

I don't make a deal with the Undead, of course I killed it no sweat.

"*BUT* you also didn't finish till D28, & paid the [Greedy] Bank their 3k gold"

I skipped 2 or 3 quests and managed to finish on the 28th day, well the payment is due at 08AM automatically and I was at the Lich location at 08AM and killed it so the travel time had cost me 3k here. If I were there at 07AM I would have finished it before paying the bank.

With all your runs, did you come up against any unusually Tough chars? [like that EVASION 60! 1 I ran into early on!]

Not particularly but maybe that high evasion foe was a unique trait? In that case it's new as it is introduced in this version.

I think you undervalue the importance of training and having sex with your slaves. Everyday I train and have sex with my slaves, it gives stats and a lot of exp which make them stronger and more efficient in their work.

For example your mage Daisy was only Wits 10 by D6, her stat is way too low to heal or deal damage with that. Mine was Wits 52 with only 3 days of training 1 sex and some combats. She earned 3 levels that way and immediately became a damage dealer with her spells even with a Bone club (value 142 gold for ref, no super expensive 1k staff).

"Oh, in case you missed it, the Hunter/Fisher idea was one got from someone else."

I was usually doing that too before the changes but well we have to adapt.

"I *SPENT* a lot more than you did. (would've bought a staff for each mage; 2 Mages = 750-1k EACH, so there's another 2k gold... ) "

Not needed expanses for combat team as proven with my run but I understand why you thought it was needed. My mages are trained, they don't rely on weapons to be strong, same with my fighters ( I wouldn't say no to free weapons thou). Meaning they are sufficiently strong with any weapons for the early game.

I would prefer armor thou because ennemies hit hard, nothing can mitigate that (some spells do...) or have a lot of HP.

Obedience

Yup they don't travel so no big obedience drop.

Travelling is not cost efficient early game. You don't have enough slaves, you don't have the classes needed to keep them obedient while they're away and you can't train them while they are not in the mansion so they do a poor job/need tools. A whole lot of negatives you can't afford early game with the debt collector right behind you.

GH-MrSomebody3 years ago

Partial Reply:

SERVANTS thing (cause I *KNOW* wasn't in 5.3!)
*REALLY* wish he'd put that in the CHANGELOG! (with all this other [mostly making it HARDER!] stuff--that's (only?) thing making it easier. )

Think I wrote that (Succubus) b4 I looked @ all you saves... Post D20, right? [Probably the most useful thing about hookers, but it takes a *LOT to get them! ---> PLUS, looks like you never used your hookers on your combat team, right? (only for GOLD?) -- Also means they R *NEVER* @ Risk for the "death" hi dam/ etc penalty (so good insurance keep gold/production high!) ]

I too often get unlucky in (well pretty much everything lol) shop rolls. BTW (sucks dev!) Heavy armor costs a *LOT* to BUY, but SELLS for almost NOTHING! :-(

"....and no I never bought a staff." ----WOW. [1 BIG difference right there!] (need to check on that "higher wits = better healing [W/O STAFF] claim. ) Unless he changed that, I *KNOW* MATK depends upon STAFF Bonus & "Lessor Heal is 120% of MATK" (Looks like you had 3 mages, & *ONE* staff, so... ) Maybe that's another recent change???
(VERIFIED: Even W/O staff, hi wit (tested Daisy vs Greph ----your save) heals more! [32 vs 21!]

ok, in my own defense don't know what version tested this in [VERY new to 5.4] but this did NOT used to be the case! Used to be, heals only depended upon MATK (which is very strongly influenced by staffs) Nothing about that in the Changelog Either

Sidenote: Your "combat team" I did notice you don't "mix & match" (ok, Daisy) ----ie, except Daisy, NONE of your team was Workers/Fishers/Hunter/Farmer. Every class was military or could B used in fights. [BTW 1 Grave Injury = D13]

-->> What's the *EARLIEST* day you did combat? (matters a LOT in 5.4 with the Enhanced "super powered" Enemies!)
(D9 you had 3 hookers but only 3 combat char-----wait Wiki [hooker] had club, so 4 combat? [a lot of my combat----including that "EASY" quest w the "60 Evasion [UGH!] Rebel-----were QUESTS, so did them early. (b4 D14? maybe b4 D7?)

-more than one thief-----Evasion bonus?

=====================================

Thinking of Trying a Run ---Fishers (instead of your hookers)----but honestly could also be done w Worker (wood/iron), Hunter (meat) or Farmer (cloth) **CONSOLIDATE** (like you did---maybe more?) I don't usually do this either. Usually char get BOTH "Peace" & "war" classes --->>> BUT EVEN *ONE* "Grave Injury" is more than enough to kill this (CRUCIAL---esp 1st 14 days!) Production!

I take time to write too (mostly if long ones) sometimes ck notes /saves /etc)

Not sure about Upgrades. [5.4]
BIGGEST *HUGE* problem so far [5.4] has been *FIGHTS*; Even EASY Quests can have them, [new "super-powered" enemies!]

GH-MrSomebody3 years ago

EV-60+ Yes, all the EXTREMELY tough enemies I've ran across R new in 5.4 [hence another reason go BACK to 5.3?]

Would need to check again, but your Daisy had a +20 Wits bonus (Alchemy? [NEW in 5.4!] ) and?

BTW I usually do M-5 Charm----helps w Training & *ALSO* QUESTs! [rec by others & very helpful]

"ASSIGNMENT Quests" ----Case in point, where it's *ESSENTIAL* that quest pay gold. (& yet most pay very little---you're taking a *HUGE* loss compared to having that slave doing production!)
This time this one pays better than average----but only 1 close is Daisy (LOL) so maybe forget about "mage Daisy" for a while...
Not that she's that powerful (PRE-D7) but, not avail for fights either....

Sometimes even bad luck w CLUBS! (I do not like stone clubs! Worse than no weapon [they increase your chance to MISS] )

I'm *SAVING* b4 every fight --in case encounter more "super-villains" like b4

Oh, ROOMS upgrade: Looks like you did that 2nd Week? (AFTER D7?)

What did you do w Shrines? You didn't have extra Grain/Veggies, (so no good offering) Ignore?

Eiyal3 years ago

Yeah got the Succubus class at D27. As I said usually I get it earlier but I had a bad Growth Factor on purpose to prove it was still possible to complete the Loan Quest.

"looks like you never used your hookers on your combat team"

Only Vikki was on the combat team and then until D10 when I could afford to buy a new slave to take her place. Combat Team had always at least 4 members.

Apart from her yeah my hookers never fought, this insured a constant income wether or not my combat team did well in dungeons.

"Heavy armor costs a *LOT* to BUY, but SELLS for almost NOTHING! :-( "

You know, when you get a heavy armor in loots it's quite a nice bonus, I won't say it sells for nothing.

"higher wits = better healing [W/O STAFF] claim

Maybe that's another recent change???

But this did NOT used to be the case! Used to be, heals only depended upon MATK"

Again, I remind you that I played since the 1rst game and as far as I remember it has always been the case. I had always trained my slaves either in Phy (for melee) or Wits (for mages/healer) because those stats influenced greatly how good they were, it has been verified through many runs I did in the past through many versions . It's not a recent change at all, the fact that "Lesser Heal" heal 120% of MATK is the newer one I'd say since I wasn't aware of that before you mentioned it a few days ago (didn't read the tooltips in a long time).

"Your "combat team" I did notice you don't "mix & match"

Every class was military or could B used in fights"

Yeah I said I specialized my slaves, my combat team is my kill team, my hookers are my income generator. it is necessary because while in theory you can have all the classes, there is a soft cap as leveling get slower and slower so I choose all classes that benefit my combat team first for combat.

Why taking Farmer when I don't farm and it gives only +15HP? I may take it later for the HP but there are other classes I prioritize which gives better stats/perks. Daisy was in dire need of Phy thus the Worker class (+10PHY +5HP)

"What's the *EARLIEST* day you did combat?"

D2 for the wolf threat then D4 for dungeons.

Vikki was a member of the combat team until D10

"more than one thief-----Evasion bonus?"

Evasion and Wits, not taking a hit can be a life saver or reduce needs for healing, so generally on everybody unless I have another class priority.

"BUT EVEN *ONE* "Grave Injury" is more than enough to kill this (CRUCIAL---esp 1st 14 days!) Production!"

Yeah but not in my case, my income is assured thanks to my hookers, no hit in production even if my whole combat team get wiped. It woul be around 2 days of rest before they can go fight again, no big deal most of the time. I can still train them.

" [hence another reason go BACK to 5.3?] "

I won't bother to go back on an older version, it's not really that tough, you have to better prepare your combattants. It also gives variety in combat, I admit it may need some tuning especially on early days (maybe not spawning before D7/D10 or have incompatible traits). Worst case scenario you flee.

Daisy had +20 Wits bonus through Alchemy and Apprentice.

"ASSIGNMENT Quests" ----Case in point, where it's *ESSENTIAL* that quest pay gold.

No it's essential they pay in REP that's all you need for the Loan Quest but again taking an Assignment quest early is not wise at all, you can't afford to send your slaves away, it will hurt your progress a lot in early game.

Sending Daisy away for 3 days? 3 days is all I needed to train her and set her for combat (she began fighting at D2, training not finished) till mid-game (after Loan Quest) while your Daisy after 3 days Assignment is still a newbie incapable of fighting, I hope you trained someone else in this case or it would be a total waste of time.

"ROOMS upgrade: Looks like you did that 2nd Week?"

Began on D7, wasn't able to gather enough resources before, finished on D8.

What did you do w Shrines? You didn't have extra Grain/Veggies, (so no good offering) Ignore?

The stone altar I loot, the metal altar if I had meat I would offer it else most of the time I skip. Later if I have cloth I would offer it to the women looking altar.

Eiyal3 years ago

I did another run from scratch, the saves are included : https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1xyqkgYZxHZSQpY8wVlsIjvLYuLgXTv0n?usp=sha...

It is not a day by day save though.

I did encounter some bandits with the nimble and precision trait early on D3 or D4, my squad miss a few hits but I was able to kill them, not an impossible foe to kill imho. I must say when I play normally I steam rolled them. Later (around D15?) I even encountered someone with 90 EVA, 3 mages attacking him and he met his end.

Finished the Loan Quest on D23 and had already 3.3K in gold + materials from dungeons.

Regarding incomes my best hooker was earning 204 gold/day and she could be trained to earn way more ( the cap is 210 in CHA and she is at 134). The 2nd gave 174 gold/day. For the most part I had only 2 hookers. The last 2 slaves were bought specifically for assignment quests.

Concerning dungeons, by the beginning of the 2nd week I can steamroll all the easy ones and potentially do at least 2 per day (if I don't loot but I do loot the area). For 100 gold they are worth it, I obtained great loot in there (staves, armor some made from adamantine and obsidian too, raw materials) By looting the dungeons I could if I wanted build some mansion upgrades without having to buy them in the shop.

I did all the easy quests on the notice board, no MED quests so yeah quite accessible.

I'm repeating myself here but I don't see what prevent you from having successful runs. It's all about time/resource management.

itch.io

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