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(+5)(-1)

This game shows promise, but I think it makes the same mistake a lot of games like this make: the majority of the game's sex scenes lead to a game over. This means that a player is punished for finding the sex scenes in a porn game, a type of game that people mostly play specifically for those scenes.

An easy solution to this would be to implement a difficulty setting in the options menu that just makes it so that when you lose a fight, the game continues on as though you had won it, xp and everything. Call it Casual Mode (or Submissive Mode, if we're going with the theme of this being a porn game). Maybe also add another difficulty setting that makes it so a game over gives you the option to begin the fight from the beginning, since some players will want to submit to an enemy just to see what the game over for losing to that enemy is like and this just lets them see that without forcing them to reload their last save and get back to that enemy.

This being optional means that anyone who for some reason wants their porn to actively discourage them from seeing anyone have sex can still have that if they want.

Besides that, I think this game looks pretty good. Particularly the grapple and undressing system, which is an interesting way to incorporate sex into the combat mechanics.

(+8)(-2)

The debate around the idea of porn games only having sex scenes in a game over or fail state is an interesting one. On the one hand, I totally understand how it can feel like a punishment when you consider it from a purely gameplay-first perspective... on the other hand, a lot of the thrill and enjoyment of the sex scenes is enhanced by the fact that you've lost, you're being punished, and we've had more than a few people in our Discord say that they much prefer losing in fights instead of the Gallery because of that aspect. For that reason, I don't think we'll go with the whole "that fight didn't count" idea.

...also, we're pretty liberal with save slots and the ability to save at any time. I may be biased as a co-developer, but is it really THAT much of a punishment to just go back a few minutes and try again?

But you still make a fair point that some people want to be rewarded with sexual content and scenes for winning, for doing things successfully and the like. And we are definitely considering that as we move forward, with things like the Relationship Score with the NPC dragons, some cheeky minigames that reward winning as well as losing, as well as some other avenues.

Pray tell, what exactly would you want to see in regards to 'victorious sex scenes'? The player dragon dominating his enemies instead? 

(3 edits) (+2)

I suppose that's a fair point even though it's a bit weird from a game design perspective. Honestly I think having to struggle against it might a big part of my enjoyment of the game as well, even if I hadn't really thought of it like that until you mentioned it. Still, I do think an optional easy mode couldn't hurt, since it would be optional, but I don't know how much work actually making something like that would be so it might be more effort than it's worth.

I don't really want any dominant sex scenes in this game, both because I prefer a submissive role (as, I imagine, do many of your game's other fans) and you've kind of won me over to the "sex scene as punishment" design. Adding dominant scenes for winning a fight might detract from the appeal of having to struggle against the enemy somewhat, making it feel less like you're desperately fighting against being taken advantage of and more like you and the enemy are both DTF and just can't agree on who should be the dom.

Sorry for the somewhat presumptuous comment, and thanks for taking the time to respond to me. I'm looking forward to seeing what future updates of this game have in store.

(3 edits) (-6)

The problem isn't that it's difficult to try again, it's that we don't have any incentive to do so besides game progression. We're not unintentionally losing fights; the gameplay isn't even difficult. We want to lose fights and don't care about winning them at all. And not necessarily even just because there isn't a sexual content reward... but because we actually aren't interested in winning.

I think the game just really is not intended for bottoms despite all the sexual content (currently) being bottom-focused, which makes it even less intended for tops. And that creates a huge disconnect between what the game is supposed to be and how it can be enjoyed. No one actually wants to play it as an adult game; if they want to play it, it's as an RPG. Which is certainly plausible, but calling it an M/M adult game isn't going to attract that audience when the MC, quite honestly, reads as asexual.

(+3)

I disagree wholeheartedly with your take on the game's problem, primarily on the bounds that what you suggest is completely and utterly subjective. Just as you may feel that you have no desire to win fights "besides the game progression", I personally feel there are several reasons to do so, such as to see additional enemies and encounters that have further sexual content, to play the game itself and slowly unravel the story, to see more of the characters that may interest you and establish relationships with them, and also to unlock the gallery where game's scenes can be viewed freely.

Your point of view is incredibly closed-minded. Assuming that just because one example of sexual content can be immediately achieved from intentionally losing fights, that people would have no desire to play the game further because they already got their fix is... almost absurdly reductive. By your reasoning, why would anyone have played more than the first level of Super Mario Bros.? You've already experienced the movement and jumping the game has to offer at that point, surely you're satisfied? You keep playing the game for the prospect of more, more fun to be had, more varied encounters to experience. 


Moving on to your next paragraph... pray tell, what evidence or facts do you have to point towards the game not being intended for "bottoms"? That the game "isn't going to attract a M/M audience"? Because we have a swathe of comments, ratings, private messages, and even a Discord full of people who fit that description and seemed to thoroughly enjoy the game.

You state that the main character reads as asexual... and feel free to dispute me if you believe otherwise, but it appears to be because you believe the sexual acts they engage in only result from losing a fight or are otherwise non-consensual? Well, there's the fact there's a handful of scenes that show active sexual desire, such as wearing both the cursed and enhanced undergarments, willingly staying longer being milked by the bandits, an ashamed sexual desire in losing the tutorial fight... as well as the fact that the player can willingly strip down and present themselves to their enemies, and in the vast majority of cases can enjoy getting off and orgasming to their advances before defeating them and continuing on with their adventure.

Finally, you say that "nobody wants to play the game as an adult game, they play it as an RPG.". To that I ask, what even is your definition of an "adult game"? Judging by your above comments, you seem to be espousing that the sexual content of the game is set apart from the RPG nature of the game because you only get it from losing / failing / 'not playing the game', and to engage in one is to not engage in the other?

If you feel otherwise, please correct me, but again this stance seems so incredibly reductive. It ignores such things as the sexual imagery and enemies, the sexual intercourse you can engage in mid-battle, the sexual scenes you can stumble across, or engage in with items... or, as I mentioned to KiptheOtt above, how the sense of failure / punishment actually enhances the sexual pleasure of submission to a great many folks.


Ultimately all of what you've said can be considered subjective opinion of course, but you've put it across in a very certain and self-assured manner, so I trust you won't mind me retorting in kind. If you have a counter argument to what I've said above, by all means feel free to share it along. I'm almost always willing to engage in open debate.

(-12)

The fact that you described several forms of progression as being reasons other than progression immediately tells me I have nothing to say to you ever. Blocked.

(+7)

What an absolutely infantile response. Especially to make to a co-writer and developer on the game, somebody who is in the best possible stance to debate the content with you.

Why not take a few minutes to explain to me how exactly anyone desires to keep playing ANY game beyond what falls under your vast blanket of "gameplay progression".? Because I quite honestly don't understand how anyone can play or enjoy a game without somehow furthering it's progression unless the game literally has none.

(-1)

There are a lot of games that do this? This is the first one I've seen in the RPG genre and one of very few I've seen at all in any genre, which is why I pointed it out a while ago.

You mean RPG porn games where losing results in a submissive sex scene? Yeah, there's several. Corruption of Champions, Corruption of Champions 2, Trials in Tainted Space, Lustful Desires, Tavern of Spear, Summoned By Accident, Lilith's Throne, Flexible Survival, and Love Monsters and Order are all the ones I know of. Most of them don't have that lead to a game-over (except in certain circumstances, like losing to a major villain or losing to the same enemy multiple times in a row), but they normally do punish you in other ways, such as you losing items or money or just not getting any of the rewards and xp you would get from winning the fight. 

(-1)

No, I know *that* is common. I mean where sex scenes are entirely game overs.

yeahh minus events
sex is purely a game over loss

Not many that I'm aware of. I vaguely remember a really janky 2.5d platformer that did that, but I'm hardly an expert on porn games. 

When I said that "a lot of these games make the same mistake," I was just referring to the fact that losing the fights is both how you access the sex scenes and is punished by the game's mechanics. Though I have come around to that design philosophy at this point, even though it does sound completely nonsensical if you examine it through the lens of traditional game design.

(1 edit) (-3)

It definitely is completely nonsensical. Not something I can over come around to. Even if it were commonplace, I'd still say it's a common mistake, not a good design.

Not saying no one can enjoy the game, but I stand by my statement that the people who enjoy this game are enjoying it because it's an RPG and no other reason.

But I am enjoying it for the sex scenes, and my enjoyment of it does have something to do with the way the sex scenes are presented. It's fine if you don't get it or don't like it, but it's weird to claim that the people who enjoy it are wrong and aren't actually having fun or whatever.

(-3)

I suppose that could be the case... but then that would mean you aren't enjoying it most of the time, since the sex scenes are extremely infrequent.

sex