Post by ParrotWatcher in The Hollow Era: Outlands - Sandbox Demo comments

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Hey again! Finally managed to beat the robot (and thus the game), and I have a few more suggestions.

Firstly, while I agree with a lot of what gruevy said, I would disagree about the camera speed... kinda. The problem is that while the camera is indeed a bit too slow to turn after wall run turn, it's also too responsive for very fine adjustments (such as when you're trying to line up a jump along a narrow walkway). (Not sure if this would be as much of a problem using a controller, but it definitely is for a keyboard.) One thing I considered was having the camera auto-rotate after a successful wall run turn, but that might just end up being too disorienting for players who've otherwise had far more camera control.

Also, the first wall run turn puzzle feels a little broken to me. With ever other parkour puzzle (including the second wall run turn puzzle), I know exactly what I'm supposed to be doing. With the first wall run turn puzzle, all I can do coming out of the turn is launch Tikal at the platform to the right and hope he makes it. Sometimes he climbs up to the platform; sometimes he wall runs up to the platform. One time he even went through the middle and ended up on the next ledge along (I have no idea how, and also that meant that I'd missed the checkpoint, so had to do the whole thing again at the next death). It just feels like there should either be a ledge at wall-running height to just drop onto, or a climbable wall at the end that can just be run into.

Regarding fighting, one of the tips said that you can stun your enemies after three consecutive hits, and it would be nice to have some kind of visual signifier of this (e.g. cartoon stars over their heads), because I have definitely managed three consecutive hits against the pigwolves and they just look like they're still fighting.

On another note, I really liked the final cutscene, although I was a little disappointed that Tikal changed back to the default outfit for it. Also, in my game, Tikal had almost died facing the robot, and his "I'm hurt" noises were still audible after the cutscene had finished.

Thanks for reading! Good luck with the rest of the game!

parimak2 years ago (1 edit) (+1)

Haha, I'm glad you enjoyed the game and the final cutscene!

I did play with the idea of an auto turn camera during parkour. And perhaps in the next iteration I'll explore that a bit more. Though, I did intend for camera control to be part of the challenge. Still, I'll see what feels more natural. I just know that if I do implement it, there's gonna be people that want an off button for it. So it's a tough juggle.

As for the first wallrun challenge, ahh I'm having some trouble visualizing what exactly was giving you a hard time with it, but -- this was technically my first stab at making a unique parkour puzzle out of the established game mechanics. There is definitely still plenty of work to be done at making Tikal best match the player's intentions, it does seem that some were left fighting the mechanics rather than working with them, so I still have more to experiment with and flesh out so Tikals actions better match what the player expects, for sure.

And perhaps I didn't explain it clearly enough in the game but -- the stun only works if you get three consecutive hits while your damage multiplier (the curved white/red bar) is maxed. And then you'll definitely know when an enemy is stunned, they go ragdoll.

I'll definitely take a look at that injured noises bug! Thanks for mentioning!

Thanks for playing my game and your valuable feedback, I'm taking in all I can!!

ParrotWatcher2 years ago (1 edit)

Okay, this is the specific moment at issue:

I think maybe I'm supposed to be running up the right wall to the orange platform, but it's too high to be easily reachable, and generally Tikal will run under or into it, and will fall. I wouldn't mind the difficulty if intent was clear, but there are several other ways to solve it, for example, if I jump at the exact right angle almost immediately after the turn, I can climb up the near side of the wall:

And while I definitely don't think there's anything wrong with having multiple solutions to a problem, here it feels like the game should be more clear about what solution it has in mind. (For comparison, the next wall-running section is very smooth, once you get the timing down, and it's very obvious what you should be doing at every point.) Does that help?

Oh, and on the topic of screenshots, I like the camera mode for being able to set up nice images (and also for scouting for secrets), but I have no idea where those images are saved to; is this a feature that's still in development, or am I just missing something obvious? Part of me would also like it if Tikal could be posed in the camera mode, but I realise that that would probably be a lot more work.

And, looking at the text in game, I see that it does mention more than just "the third strike", but I don't recall it ever really going into how the damage multiplier bar works, unless I missed the tutorial note about that. EDIT: I managed to get the stun, and it is obvious when it happens, but it looks like unarmed attacks are far better at filling the bar than spear attacks are. Is this intentional or a bug?

Thanks for your reply.

parimak2 years ago (1 edit) (+1)

Oops, meant to respond to this earlier!

I see what you mean I think. Now when making environmental puzzles, I do feel there's some importance to making the solution perhaps slightly ambiguous. Using world geometry to hint the solution but not make it obvious. But as with all things, there's a balance there, and some people are just going to happen to have a harder time with the puzzle because of how their game experience went. But yeah, people trying for hours to solve a puzzle the wrong way is also no bueno, so obviously striking that perfect balance is something worth working on.

Just in case you never figured it out, you can see in this video how that particular puzzle was intended to be solved.

In the latest build, photo mode images save in your "My Pictures" directory! I probably should've mentioned that somewhere.

It is fully intended that unarmed attacks raise your attack multiplier far more than your spear attacks do, since they do less damage. This is meant as an encouragement to use both armed and unarmed attacks intermittently.

ParrotWatcher2 years ago

Okay; that's definitely one way I've managed it, but most of the time, jumping there just gets me into another wall run, which takes me under the overhang. I've never found it easier or more intuitive than, say, running up to the top of the left wall and jumping over:

To be clear, it's not a big issue (as I said, I've solved it several different ways), but it does feel like there should probably be one solution that (once you know it, at least) feels like the obvious solution. At least for the main storyline puzzles; secret puzzles can be as obscure and non-intuitive as possible.

And yeah, that makes sense about the attacks; would it make sense to have a tutorial popup about them?

Oh, I guess this doesn't really have anything to do with the demo, but I was wondering if you were planning on adding swimming as a mechanic at some point later on?

Thanks for your reply.

itch.io

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