Post by RipplePoint in Feedback

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Huh, I was surprised that you don't have many comments or ratings even though I thought your game was really well done, so I thought I'd make a comment myself!

First off, I have to say that I have managed to beat the game, just once, against only the Hydra, so I've seen most of the content I would assume.

Alright so, I do like how simplified you have made the dungeon crawling experience, with just a few key stats, and with very straight-forward actions you can take. But that is not to say the game lacks complexity, because playing it I found it to be a VERY tight game of numbers you need to balance! I found it rather frustrating at first, and kept dying to the first "mid-boss" (the one you get warned about). It took me many tries to slowly understand the balance and importance of each stat, and what stat each monster used and how to build to defeat them, and also just when to flee! Possibly the game might be a little too difficult at first...? Or maybe it could use some more simple practice and instructions to help you get better? But that being said, once I understood how to play through the game it became much more fun trying to play through it and beat each different kind of challenge as it comes up!

Ah, one thing I personally got confused about was how "speed" was displayed and what it did to your hit chance. In the weapon display, during battle, there is the Red Feather Icon and a number, and I wasn't sure what that was telling me, because sometimes there was no feather at all and I didn't know if that mean 0 speed or something. I know now that it means your adjusted total speed based on that weapon, and no feather means you Meet or EXCEED your opponent's speed. I assume extra speed gives no bonus to attack (though helps dodge), but how much does less speed affect your hit chance? Is it by a flat amount, like -10%, or does it get worse with less speed? I think maybe you could make the speed more clear, maybe even just by always putting it on each weapon.

I mentioned before about the initial difficulty, and another one of the things that I failed to do at first was to pay money to get info on the mid-boss. Now, this just seems essential to always do, because if you build your character incorrectly (with stats or by choosing to buy the correct weapon, or to save the right resources), you will inevitably die. It just seems like you ALWAYS have to make this choice each time, but if you don't, you die. It seems a bit... like a forced choice or something... Also, what was the point of knowing the distance of the midboss? Can it ever be SUPER short and trip you up? It didn't ever seem important to know distance. I just always tried to prepare as quickly as possible. The first midboss was a huge hurdle.

Phew, this comment became pretty long! But then again, I really did enjoy your game! I do wish it were a bit faster to play through though. It really does take a while to build up, and dying sure does set you back. But then again, I really like the kind of puzzle aspect, and having to carefully build your character and manage your resources, and that takes some time to think about!

Oh, and in an update you mentioned more rings and classes? But I always just seem to get the Ranger? Has this not been implemented yet?

Alright then, great game and great work! I'll be interested to see how your game develops, and what fun and funny things you add into it!

Keeweed6 years ago(+1)

Now that is some feedback! Really amazing and I thank you for it RipplePoint! It's always a huge motivational boost to learn that people play and enjoy the game and recognize the good parts. But it's way more useful if people also express the weaker and frustrating parts of the game and you managed to do both. Thanks again.

Congratulations on beating the game! You are one of the few as far as I know. Do you think the Hydra is easier than the others, or was it a matter of chance that you happen to beat the game against the Hydra?

Yes the game is quite tight and maybe a bit too unforgiving indeed. I find balancing the difficulty incredibly... difficult. It's like walking this super thin line. Make it just a tiny bit too easy and people find it boring; too hard and it gets frustrating. I think that the turn-based nature of the game has a play in this as well (you have until eternity to decide, so the decision must be difficult in itself to create a challenging game). And of course the randomness, because that's hard to control. Nevertheless, I will try to make it a bit easier at the start and maybe a bit harder in mid-game.

Aahh the speed stat. How I love and hate it at the same time. It works pretty good I think, but it's so hard to communicate. Thanks for sharing your experience about this; I will see how I can clarify it. Another balancing act is to show just the right amount of information to not scare away new players, but to also include everything that's needed to fully understand the game. With speed I might be holding back a bit too much. In fact it works the same as the dodge chance. 1 speed less in attack is about 25% dodge chance for the enemy, 2 35%, 3... 43% or something. I found that a linear graph didn't work very well here.

You're completely right about the mid-boss warnings. In fact, I'm about to release another update that already addresses these points! The warnings are now incorporated into a bigger story line and are given for free. Distance wasn't very important and is now only mentioned as a detail. It only changes as much as a day or 2.

The rings and characters were implemented but I had to push the accompanying character menu and other logic to the next (this) update. There's however a chance of finding a ring in a dungeon or ruins.

Again, thanks a lot for your feedback Ripple. I very much appreciate it! And if you want to comment on this or have any question or remarks then please do :)

RipplePoint6 years ago

Hello again!

So the thing is...I actually haven't really gone back to the game to try to get to the other bosses (other than the hydra which I beat). I'm afraid the incentive for getting to the end has kind of diminished a lot after trying so many times to learn the game and playing through the start so many times... At the moment, with the current content and pacing, it feels rather tedious to go through the start of the game. I tried to casual dive back in and keep restarting so that I could see a different boss, but there's no room for casual play! It can be a harsh (but very rewarding) game! Are the other bosses very different than the hydra, or is it just some stat differences? I kind of assume that I can beat them if it's just different stat allocations.

One thought I had was that, maybe you could have a "easy" or "casual" mode? More health, more items slots, and a shorter endpoint maybe? That way, people can experience the game more fully, and hopefully build up some knowledge and strategy as they go along without needed to restart as often. Then, there's the "normal" game for a challenge. Doing this has drawbacks though, like maybe that easy mode will show too much of the content so people might not be inclined to play the normal mode, or, that people will play the easy mode and think the game is too simple and not want to bother playing normal mode and experience the challenge, which is kind of core to the game.

Oh, you mention randomness. I don't know if this helps, but a really really vague feeling I have is that I think that maybe I lose about 1 in 4 games because of randomness. I'm not sure if that's really near being true or just me not being that good, but that's just the feeling I have.

Oh, hm, I don't think I've seen a ring yet. Though...I haven't been trying for the end game much...

But for sure I'll be trying out the game as it develops, and with your updates! I look forward to seeing how it goes, and good luck!!

Keeweed6 years ago(+1)

Hi Ripple thanks again for your reply!

It's true, the other bosses are just different stats, but that means you'll have to grow your character differently and gather other gear etc...

From reading this and also hearing other people's comments I think the game has become a bit too harsh. I have played with the idea of an easy mode, but I'd much prefer the game to be better balanced in the first place. Also, an extra mode means a lot more testing and tweaking. I want to try to make the game's difficulty rise with the subsequent characters that you unlock when the game is completed. So the first character has a ring that makes the game simply easier to complete than the characters to come. That might work, although it feels a bit weird for a new unlocked character to be less strong...

Oh, another thing, I've followed your earlier comment and clarified the speed stat somewhat. During combat you now see the hit chance for each weapon whenever it's below 100%. I think it's an improvement. Thanks again!

RipplePoint6 years ago

Well, I have seen some roguelikes where you can unlock "challenge" characters that have more complicated and harder mechanics. You could make some character unlocks easier ones, and some harder. Maybe you have to work harder to unlock the "hard" characters?

I would still like to see hit chance even when it is 100% for clarity sake. Or some other way to represent normal hit chance. Maybe the weapon text is in green? Or maybe when hit chance is less than 100 the weapon text is red?

ah! There's a new update! I'll have to go and try it out again!

Keeweed6 years ago(+1)

Yeah I will tune the characters some more and make sure there's some difference in difficulty there.

I could of course show the hit chance in all circumstances, but I kind of like to keep things as simple as I can. I'll ask around and see what people think of current presentation.

Thanks again for your input Ripple!

RipplePoint6 years ago

I have played through the new update!

And this time I took notes! Here they are, as a string of thoughts in the order that I encountered them (rather than as a complete overview sorry).

-You have re/named some of the mushrooms I noticed. The magic mushroom says it "grants an experience", but how much? 1 exp, or more?
-I remember some grammar mistakes but...I didn't write down where they were...I was going kinda fast.
Do you level up faster now? I think I'm getting exp potions faster. And looking at the character sheet, I think the numbers for leveling do seem smaller.
-Huh, I'm getting a lot of Monster Parts. (Note: in other play throughs (with the next character) I didn't get nearly as many. Is it because of the character, or just rng?)
-Oof, starting with a passive item rather than a 1-off item (potion/key/torch) just seems so much stronger.
-Sometimes you don't start with a shield... and sometimes you get a shield and dagger. It would be nice if you always get a weapon and shield.
-The reminder of the boss monster (dragon/hydra etc) is a nice touch because sometimes I would forget what I was actually building towards :P
-Before the end I always sell my ring of life. Does it work in the castle? Or is it just always better to sell it for cash?
-When you sell items (mainly for Magic Mushrooms) it would be nice if it didn't go back to the shop screen so you can sell multiple items in a row?
-Ugh, sometimes it feels like there are not enough weapons, or sometimes not enough shields. It forces you to flee a lot. But then again, the exp cap was lowered.
-That wizard with spells was scary! I beat him, but I wonder if he has the right spell, he can really cause you trouble and maybe force you to waste a lot of resources on him.
-Well, I beat the Dragon! Though, hm, the boss really didn't feel unique enough, though maybe it's because the difficulty was tweaked? I just did the usual balance of stats, and made sure to store up spells and mushrooms to use as needed. But it still felt like the hydra fight to me. While the simplicity of the game is a selling point, maybe you could add a tad more flavour to the boss? Like each has a unique power? Or maybe each is tied to a unique spell, which they cast (like the wizard. But then...maybe make the wizard do a different thing or it's too much like the boss...).
-ugh, random poisonous creatures...the snakes were bad enough! It is really hard and costly to avoid Snakes already. You basically have to save every elixer for them, because attacking through is too costly: either you don't have the speed, or your damage isn't high enough, or it will cost you too much weapon durability. Maybe you should only have to fight 1 snake... Does the amount of snakes increase? Is the number random? Usually I just try to save elixers and take the poison... try to take it both ways going in and out, and then elixer.
-Ooo, the Wizards staff freezes the casting price? I died before I could test it more, but does it use up durability, casting spells?
-Bug? The knights helmet did not display a crown for unique artefact
-At 36/50 along the path, going into darkness it dealt 9 damage to me!! I saw 8 damage possible before so I thought I was safe, but 9 damage that goes through armour? So you're forced waste monster parts or heal potions to get to 10 if you have no torch or are saving it for poison and snakes? Is it just instant death trap? Seems so punishing...
-With warrior does the difficulty scale? I kept running out of weapons. Maybe it's just because you have less attack so you have to use up durability a lot more. And it's costly to attack through spider webs so you don't have money for shops.

Phew, so far I haven't beat it with the second character, the warrior. But those are all my notes! Those were some fun improvements! Good luck with the development!

Keeweed6 years ago

Wow. That's a lot of feedback :D Let me go through it!

- Just 1 XP
- I welcome all feedback about text and language! As I'm not a native English speaker, I reckon there are loads of grammar mistakes :(
- Ah yes I made some changed on that part
- I don't think I've changed that, so yes, probably RNG
- I think I've lowered the chance for that, but yes that's a good start right :)
- Yes, that would be optimal, but also limiting the choice space. I think I like a bit of randomness there. I've made sure that at the first merchant you can always get the 2 weapons you didn't get. So that soothes out the RNG a bit.
- Thanks! I hear that from more people. Actually I have a story on the backlog to add a quest notebook or something, but I think it'll have to wait...
- That's a great tactic ;)
- Ah yes, I've had this comment before. I understand its a nuisance, but I also like it for the clearness it gives. I'll have to think about this one...
- I'm trying to tune down the amount of enemies a bit, that will hopefully save weapons as well.
- Glad you like him!
- I agree the end boss could be a bit more climactic. Thanks for those suggestions, I'll think about it.
- I'm going to tune down the snakes, because I think they are too hard as well. I'll probably turn down the amount from 2-3 to 1-2 and lower their life a bit. And yes, I use that same tactic as well. Got to love Elixirs :)
- Yes it does :)
- That's weird. I checked it here and don't see anything suspicious. I have changed it so that the icon only shows up in the inventory, though.
- I agree that's a bit out of range. I'll change it back to 8.
- No, apart from the stats and the ring the game is the same for each character. I'm thinking about changing them a bit, though. I'm thinking of making the first character a bit easier (give him 15 life probably) and then make each character 1 step harder.

Thanks a lot for playing the game so much and leaving all these notes, RipplePoint! I really appreciate it! Gives me a lot of insight on how easy/hard the game is and where it can be improved. Cheers!

Keeweed6 years ago(+1)

Hi Ripple, I want to thank you for playing and providing feedback by adding your name to the credits. Please let me know if you'd be OK with that and which name I should use. You can also drop me an email if you want: jordin [at] keeweed [dot] com

Cheers!

RipplePoint6 years ago

Oh thank you! Sure you can add me, just as "Ripple" will be fine. Glad to see my note taking proved useful to you. Good luck developing your game!

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