Post by R3dR4v3ndotgg in Harem Hotel (18+) comments

Viewing post in Harem Hotel (18+) comments

Fair, I'll try my best to clarify. Wall of text, coming up. Pardon in advance if things a worded a bit "roughly" - I am actively trying to sell to you that I am not insane.

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If you can "sell" both routes as viable options - again, I have trouble believing Nias 'slave route' as much as her 'love route' - then more power to you, and I won't say anything further. After all, there is a reason as to why you present both options.

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Perhaps my problem with Cornwall is simply that in the early game, yes, he shows certain signs, and Trenero's half-elf wife is another indication... but unless I am mistaken, ever since, the only role he's had is to further a reputation as ruthless politician who seeks election to a higher post beyond anything. With no sign otherwise. Which is irritating given how relatively "open" he was during that "slave training contest" - unless that's on your list of scenes to be reworked/rewritten, too.

A similar thing goes on with Trereno. I am not trusting you in any way-shape-or-form, that those "elf bots" are any good :P It's a bad triangle of Religion, Politics, Business in that world... Religion keeps the people stupid, Politics make sure to eliminate everything diverging from what it should be (removing people's right to vote), and business makes sure to profit from it, while feeding the other two. And with no sizeable public or other support to back up change (Vanessa says, while meeting Nia, that the pro-slavery-faction in Syl'vanar has dropped by, what, 8% - OVER 30 YEARS?)...

If I look at Lins story arch seperately, without connecting too much to the others, then I see some vague glimmers, too.
But if I look at the whole picture...
Hope can only arise if there is a hint of weakness in the system. If you hope beyond hope, you're not hopeful, you're desperate.
To use Star Wars as a comparison, an unshielded venting duct that you can only see if you have the blueprints of the Death Star. You, the author, do have those blueprints. And you can say with confidence that you can make it work.
I, as a player, cannot see any sizeable holes in what looks like the completey bulletproof system of Syl'vanar. You're giving far too many hints as to how effed Syl'vanar is, as a country and especially the human portion of said society.
I see few-to-none promising points at which the Manager or his ""crew"" (take that term with more than a grain of salt) could actually use to better their situation - or how they would have any hope aside from something desperate. And as it stands at the moment, they've got their backs against the wall. Not much to inspire hope. Only a desperate struggle & gambit.

Then again, perhaps it's my cynisism that I don't see what's obvious? I'll trust your judgement, you hold and know all the cards, after all. If you can prove me wrong - likely: WHEN - I'll tip my hat. Perhaps we are not as far advanced into the storyline as I thought, and you have a few more tricks still up your sleeve. That's not me trying to belittle you, that's me being genuinely curious, and I am looking forward to what is to come. And what you've said about your plans with Cornwall does put my mind at ease.

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The disconnect comes from me feeling as if I do not understand why the Manager is doing some of the things he does, whilst others make perfect sense. His behaviour is inconsistent to me, to the point that I do not feel as if I have much control over what is happening, at least during certain stages.

Have you ever played a Bioware RPG? I am a huge fan of Mass Effect, where you can really shape your Commander Shepard by the choices you make. I am not insane enough to hold you to the same standards as a full AAA studio; but it feels as if I am jumping from one end of the spectrum of behaviour to the next (Renegade/Paragon).

To give you an example, again using Ashley:

During the latter stages of Ashley's story arch, the Manager shows that he can indeed lead. He is making the suggestions he's bringing forth the clever ideas, depending on how you chose you seem to actually have an influence over what happens. Especially during the trip to the slums. I felt connected to what happened - even if that connection was to "HIM", not "MYSELF".

Contrary to that, when Ashley pulls her knife on Maria - no reaction? No: "Why did you just do that?" Not even an internal monologue about what happens, shock or curiosity? When Ashley drugs you - why can't you show anger? If someone tried to force a pill on me, I'd be PISSED, no matter who that was.

The difference, I think, is down to the fact that in these earlier scenes, the Hotel Manager has not many thoughts himself - while towards the latter stages, he develops a life of his own.
I do not have only an elder sister, I certainly wasn't always helping around house to be able to fix the broken shower Autumn was in.

And at the same time, if Autumn had acted out of char, and you can see what's happening - there should be, in my mind at least, some sort of an internal reflection. If you intend on having a "little revenge" on Autumn due to her disrespect of the other girls (especially Android), it should be reflected somewhere.

And on the OTHER hand, it was THE MANAGERS, not MY, initiative that helped Lin back up on her feet after she crashed the car - and everything else.

That might sound cynic or strange - but you may actually have become a victim of your own success, in that the story parts are very interlinked with each other, so as the player, you CANNOT chose freely enough for it to be a full self insert. And at the same time, your chars are so wonderfully complex, that in order for the Manager to properly interact with each, he can't be a bland mirror anymore, so he either has to become a CHAR we play, or you would have to build in so many intervowen and complex answer options that would also have to be recalled later in the game so that the Manager can STAY bland and act as the player's mirror. So he's both leading and very much NOT leading, being simply dragged along by what is happening, being both "powerful" and "powerless".

Just my 50 cents in that regard... Because, while yes, the Manager is literally a sidekick in some occasions, he's also the reason the whole show is running at all. Which, I feel, is a bit ... not forgotten, but underappreciated.

One of the girls visiting HIM while Maria's gone, to offer (emotional or other) support, for example, would've gone a long way to show that both sides of the coin are connected.

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It's possible that that bug came from upgrading an earlier version, as you say. I'll check if I can find anything and will let you know if something pops up.

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So, there's that. Pardon me, again, if it sounds like I am trying to convince you to do things "my way" - I'm just trying to make my points clear, maybe to the point of overcooking them, so they are workable for you. My brain tends to wander, and perhaps I am overthinking certain things.

That being said, don't let this distract you from the fact that you've created something for me to actually CARE about. And that is simply excellent work.

RuneyGames2 years ago(+1)

Both the love route and the slave route are not equal. As the options you choose should make clear, the love route is for story, the slave route is for sex.

Yes, that slave training contest is planned to be remade into something else at some point, it doesn't totally fit with the flow of that arc.

The elfbots use elf blood as the energy source, I'm certainly not trying to present the concept as good. That's Trenero's job. If people only hear the good things, the project will get greenlit. Only a very few elite people, and you and his daughter, know the dark secrets of how the elfbot is made at the moment.

Lin started out as a hopeless slave who now has a former royal and Nia following her. I won't go on, like you say, you can see the glimmers already.
Kali has went from a lazy girl with no accomplishments to a somewhat ambitious one at the moment, she's beginning to strive for great things and her level of skill has improved vastly in a short amount of time.
Ashley started as a depressed girl who refused to express herself honestly out of fear, now she's quite happy and gaining confidence and has been shown multiple times to help others when they're down now. She saved Android from getting any worse for example. She went from helpless to helpful, and is now trying to save another person's life (Ms. Ren).
Maria is probably the best example from recent events. The hospital shook things up a lot, but Maria very quickly found a new purpose in rebelling and finding her mother.

It's always been my goal to take these broken people, get them healed, and have them use their experience to help the world. These characters would not be able to turn into the great ones I know they will be at the end of this story without being forged in fire so to speak. I think the hope is there, but it's not exactly where you expect it to be.

I would guess that Harem Hotel's story is about 60% done. More than half of the main characters have moved into the stages of "Helping the world" or are moving into that stage now since many of their isolated personal problems have been dealt with and they've been able to grow as a result.

And there are many holes in Syl'anar's system! Which I would love to talk about.
The biggest may be the most obvious, yet the one that may go most unnoticed as well. Slave workers. Every single vital part of Syl'anar's society is run by elves, from farmers, to cooks, delivery drivers, etc. Just about everything that isn't scientific, artistic, or political. If it involves labor, it's probably done by an elf. (But they've revolted 3 times before, so this is shown to be not enough)
Another weakness, which is much more subtle, is that the bulk of Syl'anar's military can be disarmed with an extremely cheap and available material. Paint. Vanessa points out that throwing paint on a droid's head (Such as the police droids) will block their sensors. Or just spray paint will do the job. EMPs would also work, but that's not as available.
The rest of their strength is in the police force, which is definitely substantial, and always has been in their history to control slaves.
I should also point out that you have the only sentient android(s) known to exist, so that has to count for something. You're also in bed with Kali, and she has a lot of potential to do some damage with her skills and who she is as a person.
And another weakness, which is much more subtle, is that the humans in Syl'anar are in constant fear. They're fed both lies and truths about the imminent collapse of their nation/economy if elves are freed, or treated equally. The hate all serves a specific purpose, and that is to keep elves as slaves on a cultural level. But a nation built on fear is a very internally fragile one. (But we are just now starting to see the main characters effect the world after all)
There's more, but I don't want to keep flooding this post.

Most of the events you mentioned about the player character's character are from some of the oldest events not yet remade, which is the same case with Cornwall's slave training orgy event. I think what you're noticing is my less than stellar writing at the time.

As for how the manager acts, well, this isn't a sandbox game, this is a very linear story. The choices you make are flavor only. The choices you make help shape the character you insert to. You are still playing as a character, but that character is meant to be you, not the hero of the story. So of course he will help Lin, you don't need to click a button to do that. It's impossible for any game to be a completely full self insert, at least with current tech. In every self insert story, the character has some of their own agency. Oh, I guess aside from D&D! Unless you have a bad DM, haha.

I wouldn't be able to write every possible action to make everyone happy in every moment, but I don't think I need to make him a fully fledged main character either.

R3dR4v3ndotgg2 years ago

Fair. You've made your points in response to mine, and I respect your reasoning. YOUR game, YOUR story, YOUR calls to make.

Last set of replies, won't bother you any further.

As long as the slave route doesn't inherently break the story, no argument from my side. But you seem very much aware of that, so, I don't need to worry.

That's excellent news, because I thought we were beyond 75%, frankly. But yeah, with some reworks to earlier scenes (and I know the pain of having to rewrite supar early chapters, trust me...) and knowing that there ARE more twists and turns to come as I expected, then I think you got this.

One last warning, if I may: Keep in mind that the Syl'vanar you created is noted as THE singular most powerful nation in your world. And as the prior uprisings and their consequences (like chipping the elves) have shown - it MUST be resilient to change, even if only from institutional inertia and the simple MASS of forces at its disposal, political, military, judical, religion etc. etc.
You'll only break such a regime with either a singular, but devastating blow, or by slowly chipping away at its fundamentals. And the system WANTS to keep it together, so reprisals are to be expected, no matter how fragile the system is. For an extreme example: 3rd Reich, or even the Soviet Union (the final throes of which we are experiencing right now with the War against Ukraine).

(Speaking, for example, about the paint attacks - change to another way of detection, and the attacks are nullified. Just so far, noone bothered. Just as far as the mercenaries attacking Night Owl Clan haven't tried overwhelming force, or at all, since the 3 (!) old model mechs arrived.)

That being said, your talks about the fragility of a nation in fear are entirely correct. Take the entirety of the former Eastern Bloc as an example. So, I rest easy knowing you know what you're doing.

And as far as your comments about the manager are concerned... You are also entirely correct, and I am/was probably overthinking it.
That being said, I'll respectfully disagree regardless - if the main choices are linear, which they are, flavour can only do so much to make HIM the player avatar.
So I will stick to it - in that case, having an established persona to assume right from the get-go would be my preferred choice, so that the player always knows what to expect.
But as I said, the "char" of the Manager is starting to become somewhat established later on, without the need to make him a "real" char at all.
And if that's the case, I won't be able to immerse myself in him - but that hasn't stopped me before from playing this game, and judging by all the other comments, nobody else cares much either. So, to be blunt about it, if you're reworking some of the earlier parts later anyway, with just a bit more polish this'll work just nicely. :D

Thank you for taking your time to read & reply to what I had to say, and I hope that, regardless, it was somewhat useful for yourself as well.
Once again, thank you a lot for creating this game. I'll look forward to further releases.

itch.io

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