Post by CMaxo in Was buying on itch.io a bad choice?

Viewing post in Was buying on itch.io a bad choice?

You do remember that you originally started this itch.io page to fund the development, right? You do remember that you initially started tis page and told people that by buying it on itch.io, they get early access to new features, right?

A copy/pasta of your own words even at the moment:

Get earlier development builds now here on itch (even earlier on SubscribeStar), or add to your wishlist on steam for more complete stable releases soon!

Saying "Not every update is worth playing, especially if it's content you want" doesn't apply here since the itch.io builds released are still broken/incomplete (barely in an Alpha stage). It's not even about content, but functionality at this point.

What you did is switching your business model from originally being "Development being funded via itch.io" to "Development being funded via subscription" as you know people do appreciate your work enough to pay a monthly fee (you have numbers related the number of sales on itch.io) for it and as you know that they wouldn't pay said monthly fee if you don't give them some monthly candies, hence you abandoned the "development builds" side of itch.io and turn it into basically a sub-Steam release.

As an independent developer myself who work with the same tools are you, I just can't agree with how you have handled this on itch.io.

In fact, you might not know about it, but there are laws in Canada, US and the UK (at least) which protect consumers from exactly what you have been doing, though you're still in the gray zone (but close of being out of time). You can't legally ask for payment for a promised product in development and then, later, offer an upgraded version of said product still in development onto any other platforms/markets/buyers without first equalizing both products equally toward your original payers from the first market/purchases.

I'll give you some tips based on your way of versioning your project:

v.X.0.0.a are released version, meaning that once it reach v.1.0.0, you have reached a stable final build. This is what you would call a "Steam release".

v.0.X.0.a are development versions, meaning they are steps where features or content are added or heavily modified. Any changes in those are supposed to be distributed on itch.io as per your own original promises. You could also release a pre-Release on Steam with this version, if you're confident (though Steam has specific rules, even since the fiasco of the Greenlight, regarding development time and they don't allow what you're currently doing with itch.io.)

v.0.0.X.a are fixes and minor modifications that may change some part of the game. It can also includes minor content addition like some festival content. For example, an additional option in a menu or new settings, etc.

v.0.0.0.a are minor fixes for oversight errors. For example, typos (mistakes in texts), or some other small corrections.

Remember that, on Patreon, you're at v.0.3.1.c (from the your Patreon news update) and, here you're still at 0.2.8.a and the 2 versions are quite different state of the same product. Your original promise on itch.io when you introduced the Patreon/SubscribeStar funding method was that itch.io would receive the same update as the Patreon/SubscribeStar, but 1 month later. v.0.3.1.c came out on July 18 2022. Even if you decided to completely change anything in the project, you're already not following your own promise on releases to your itch.io buyers.

Even if you're thinking "but I don't have that version of the game anymore", the builds files are still available. You got no legal ground on leaving your buyers from itch.io out of the loop like you did.

Noboty2 years ago(+1)

Not all heroes wear capes.

jacobe212 years ago(+2)

I agree. I don't know why the developers abandoned us here on Itch.io and haven't given us an update in almost a year. Meanwhile, they continue to (somewhat) regularly post on Patreon; here they just post minimal text news updates. It is clear that they changed their minds about releasing development builds on Itch.io because they couldn't charge a monthly subscription and they're trying to move away from the platform.

Momoiro Software1 year ago

I think people severely underestimate what the final game is supposed to be. I think most people think it's "Current game + more content and animations" IT IS NOT THAT. And I'm sorry if I made people think that with the preview and current versions of the game. The versions that have come here ARE early development versions, if the game as it was now, was how it's supposed to be it would be on steam already. But it's not.

The builds coming to patreon and SS are LESS playable than even current releases. Cause they're even more early development.

There's no new content in these releases, there's a function I want people to try and give bug reports on. Thats about it. You can find 3.1 on patreon open free for everyone, it was an accident but because it's been so long I decided to quietly leave it.

And then you play it and find that you have to buy every single store item in a store with no store icons before you can play the game, that's annoying. I don't want people on itch to have to deal with that. And the reason it's like that is to show the store working and get reports on glitches.

Now you might ask "well why not fix that and just release it here" Thats not the only issue, there's many other experimental features and functions that are half implemented. And spending time making those things work for a broader release is not a good use of development time, and I'm saying that knowing it's been a year since the last update. It's better to move on, finish other aspects cause it's not like there's content to play. I spend potentially a couple weeks ironing out bugs to get the release out for NO ADDITIONAL CONTENT.

It's not worth it.

As for your version comments, I follow a similar ruleset, BUT it's also based on internal information. Like what's the progress of the story writing, what internal features are functional, etc. It doesn't mean it's playable. Also 1.0.0 is when the game is finished, not stable, that's not the steam release, steam release will be like 0.5.0 cause it will be still early access. The game is 1.0.0 when the game is playable from beginning to end, we are no where near that, and maybe next update will make that clearer.

Understand what I mean by stable I mean playable, where you can enjoy the game and play content and not have to deal with the game soft locking or breaking. I don't want someone to sit down feel like playing Our Apartment and then their game updated to a shittier version that's broken with a bunch of confusing new UI stuff.

Look I get it, it's frustrating to wait, you're entitled to updates which you WILL get. And when that happens, and when the game has progressed to the standards promised in the preview you'll be a happy customer. But I know that until then it's going to be an annoying wait cause there's nothing much more I can do. I am one person, making a fairly ambitious project but also trying to do it properly. It will take time.

You spent $10, thank you, I appreciate it. I make every development post on patreon/SS public for people like you. But what I don't want is a reputation for buggy broken releases, I've seen what that looks like. I've had people pissed off playing pirated versions, of development builds.

I would rather have a reputation for being insanely slow.

Woody88m1 year ago

Patience is a virtue with many names: Whether it's self-control, perseverance, frustration tolerance or the old-fashioned long-suffering. They all describe the ability to be able to wait patiently for something. But patience means even more: it is an essential key to professional and personal success. ;)