Our Apartment

A game about a girl in your apartment... · By Momoiro Software, MiNT, Sacb0y

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Was buying on itch.io a bad choice?

A topic by SkyHigh340 created Sep 17, 2022 Views: 7,854 Replies: 19

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SkyHigh3402 years ago (1 edit) (+3)

I don't know if I'm just unlucky or something but I bought this game exactly 62 days ago, its the first game I ever bought here on itch.io and as a consequence I'm new to the whole "indie game" scene. Maybe I'm over reacting if so please feel free to educate me, but in the time I bought this game there hasn't been a single updated, although I'm not 100% sure about that either because I read a post saying that Patreon was the place where most of the updates where going? I read this because I thought that because I tipped that meant I would get the "Donation only build" but apparently that's only for Patreon? Does that mean my purchase HERE was a bad choice? Should I have gone with Patreon? I'm simply new and I don't understand. However and I'm sorry this is going on so long but I am aware that these are indie games with small company's or even one or two people making it, I'm also aware that they have lives and updates will take a while and to be honest I'm totally fine and willing to wait I just would like to know that I didn't get ripped off because I didn't buy it on Patreon.

As a side note why does it feel like the free version is better then the paid version? Maybe its just subjective idk.

Astrothunderr2 years ago(+3)

yea man bought this a year ago and there's been barely anything, from what I know we're kind of in the middle where we get updates but we get them months later you and I should've bought this on patron

SkyHigh3402 years ago(+4)

If thats true then that SUCKS they should really advertise that, but you live and you learn I guess.

Janus69661 year ago

I bought a buncha games on here, but I already knew what I was in for. I originally joined the Patreon for one of the games on here, but I kinda had a bad experience with the Discord community, so I stepped off. Then I discovered this site, and all the amazing adult games on here.

I think I should make something clear to you. The majority of games on here take months for updates, whether you're on the Patreon, or not. That's why I just grabbed a whole buncha games on here, so I'll have some variety. And I'll still have access to the updates, whenever they come this way. I think I'm gonna grab this one, for good measure.

litboxfire2 years ago(-2)

bruh its a browser game... that says enough

SkyHigh3402 years ago(+1)

I guess you're like half right when you actually buy the game its a proper .exe game, it has plans to release on steam and everything. I'm holding out hope for that because its said that they hope to release it on there in 2022, maybe then they'll finally update it on here? idk.

Entoco2 years ago(-1)

Actually there are updates on the state of the game. The dev had problem last month but you can check progress on their Patreon. Last post was 3 days ago with progress pics. https://www.patreon.com/momoirosoftware

Noboty2 years ago (3 edits)

That means absolutely nothing unless you are a patron, for only patrons get said updates. Or do they? I don't know because every monthly update blog post comes late (if at all)and always has some convenient excuse. And every update is "THE BIGGEST UPDATE EVER!!!!!!!!!!!"I don't even read the updates anymore. I agree with the thread creator. Getting it on Itchio was a mistake.

passi1232 years ago

Which Pack to i have to Buy so i can play the Game?

Lycanshi2 years ago

This is why I don't buy games on here . Everytime it seems like they aren't worth it or there's zero support

Momoiro SoftwareDeveloper2 years ago(+7)(-6)

Do understand people who buy on itch get the full game on release, that full release will be here.

Sites like patreon and subscribe star get development releases, while people here "stable" releases. That means less frequently but high quality and with new content. Not just a preview or something. Not every update is worth playing, especially if it's content you want

Support on patreon/SS to support development, if you want to buy the game you've already bought it here.

CMaxo2 years ago(+16)(-2)

You do remember that you originally started this itch.io page to fund the development, right? You do remember that you initially started tis page and told people that by buying it on itch.io, they get early access to new features, right?

A copy/pasta of your own words even at the moment:

Get earlier development builds now here on itch (even earlier on SubscribeStar), or add to your wishlist on steam for more complete stable releases soon!

Saying "Not every update is worth playing, especially if it's content you want" doesn't apply here since the itch.io builds released are still broken/incomplete (barely in an Alpha stage). It's not even about content, but functionality at this point.

What you did is switching your business model from originally being "Development being funded via itch.io" to "Development being funded via subscription" as you know people do appreciate your work enough to pay a monthly fee (you have numbers related the number of sales on itch.io) for it and as you know that they wouldn't pay said monthly fee if you don't give them some monthly candies, hence you abandoned the "development builds" side of itch.io and turn it into basically a sub-Steam release.

As an independent developer myself who work with the same tools are you, I just can't agree with how you have handled this on itch.io.

In fact, you might not know about it, but there are laws in Canada, US and the UK (at least) which protect consumers from exactly what you have been doing, though you're still in the gray zone (but close of being out of time). You can't legally ask for payment for a promised product in development and then, later, offer an upgraded version of said product still in development onto any other platforms/markets/buyers without first equalizing both products equally toward your original payers from the first market/purchases.

I'll give you some tips based on your way of versioning your project:

v.X.0.0.a are released version, meaning that once it reach v.1.0.0, you have reached a stable final build. This is what you would call a "Steam release".

v.0.X.0.a are development versions, meaning they are steps where features or content are added or heavily modified. Any changes in those are supposed to be distributed on itch.io as per your own original promises. You could also release a pre-Release on Steam with this version, if you're confident (though Steam has specific rules, even since the fiasco of the Greenlight, regarding development time and they don't allow what you're currently doing with itch.io.)

v.0.0.X.a are fixes and minor modifications that may change some part of the game. It can also includes minor content addition like some festival content. For example, an additional option in a menu or new settings, etc.

v.0.0.0.a are minor fixes for oversight errors. For example, typos (mistakes in texts), or some other small corrections.

Remember that, on Patreon, you're at v.0.3.1.c (from the your Patreon news update) and, here you're still at 0.2.8.a and the 2 versions are quite different state of the same product. Your original promise on itch.io when you introduced the Patreon/SubscribeStar funding method was that itch.io would receive the same update as the Patreon/SubscribeStar, but 1 month later. v.0.3.1.c came out on July 18 2022. Even if you decided to completely change anything in the project, you're already not following your own promise on releases to your itch.io buyers.

Even if you're thinking "but I don't have that version of the game anymore", the builds files are still available. You got no legal ground on leaving your buyers from itch.io out of the loop like you did.

Noboty2 years ago(+1)

Not all heroes wear capes.

jacobe212 years ago(+2)

I agree. I don't know why the developers abandoned us here on Itch.io and haven't given us an update in almost a year. Meanwhile, they continue to (somewhat) regularly post on Patreon; here they just post minimal text news updates. It is clear that they changed their minds about releasing development builds on Itch.io because they couldn't charge a monthly subscription and they're trying to move away from the platform.

Momoiro SoftwareDeveloper1 year ago

I think people severely underestimate what the final game is supposed to be. I think most people think it's "Current game + more content and animations" IT IS NOT THAT. And I'm sorry if I made people think that with the preview and current versions of the game. The versions that have come here ARE early development versions, if the game as it was now, was how it's supposed to be it would be on steam already. But it's not.

The builds coming to patreon and SS are LESS playable than even current releases. Cause they're even more early development.

There's no new content in these releases, there's a function I want people to try and give bug reports on. Thats about it. You can find 3.1 on patreon open free for everyone, it was an accident but because it's been so long I decided to quietly leave it.

And then you play it and find that you have to buy every single store item in a store with no store icons before you can play the game, that's annoying. I don't want people on itch to have to deal with that. And the reason it's like that is to show the store working and get reports on glitches.

Now you might ask "well why not fix that and just release it here" Thats not the only issue, there's many other experimental features and functions that are half implemented. And spending time making those things work for a broader release is not a good use of development time, and I'm saying that knowing it's been a year since the last update. It's better to move on, finish other aspects cause it's not like there's content to play. I spend potentially a couple weeks ironing out bugs to get the release out for NO ADDITIONAL CONTENT.

It's not worth it.

As for your version comments, I follow a similar ruleset, BUT it's also based on internal information. Like what's the progress of the story writing, what internal features are functional, etc. It doesn't mean it's playable. Also 1.0.0 is when the game is finished, not stable, that's not the steam release, steam release will be like 0.5.0 cause it will be still early access. The game is 1.0.0 when the game is playable from beginning to end, we are no where near that, and maybe next update will make that clearer.

Understand what I mean by stable I mean playable, where you can enjoy the game and play content and not have to deal with the game soft locking or breaking. I don't want someone to sit down feel like playing Our Apartment and then their game updated to a shittier version that's broken with a bunch of confusing new UI stuff.

Look I get it, it's frustrating to wait, you're entitled to updates which you WILL get. And when that happens, and when the game has progressed to the standards promised in the preview you'll be a happy customer. But I know that until then it's going to be an annoying wait cause there's nothing much more I can do. I am one person, making a fairly ambitious project but also trying to do it properly. It will take time.

You spent $10, thank you, I appreciate it. I make every development post on patreon/SS public for people like you. But what I don't want is a reputation for buggy broken releases, I've seen what that looks like. I've had people pissed off playing pirated versions, of development builds.

I would rather have a reputation for being insanely slow.

Woody88m1 year ago

Patience is a virtue with many names: Whether it's self-control, perseverance, frustration tolerance or the old-fashioned long-suffering. They all describe the ability to be able to wait patiently for something. But patience means even more: it is an essential key to professional and personal success. ;)

Loguzo2 years ago(+2)(-1)

As far as I know, this game isn't worth looking at, AT ALL.

Dude, it has been months. MONTHS. This game has been on the same version for MONTHS. Not one thing has changed for MONTHS. Sure there's 1 new pose in the game now, but it's still laggy as hell, and the UI is just flat out broken for me. Stable releases my ass, if this is a stable release right now then they must be on potato PCs.
I bet they're rocking one of those Macintosh's to make a poor game like this.

^ (Macintosh) ^
Please encourage people to NOT BUY THIS GAME. At this point, I'm seeing more 3d games like this one but getting 10x more updates within the months that I have been waiting for one singular good update from this game.
The developers must be enjoying life right now. Just chilling on a beach with the money it has received from people who thought this game was gonna be good.

So, let's go down memory lane. They had a goal to release this game on steam about 1 year ago. So far, there hasn't been 1 good update in an entire year. 1 new pose? Oh that's great let me check out that 1 new pose, oh wait! My game just crashed because for some reason the UI is broken and super laggy, and most of the UI doesn't work (Referring to settings).
It's clear they are just abandoning Itch.io to get more income from Patreon. But even subscribers on Patreon barely get anything! I bet even on SubscribeStar they don't get anything as well. Game is just a straight cash grab.

Momoiro SoftwareDeveloper1 year ago(+3)

They had a goal to release this game on steam about 1 year ago.

YES, and it wasn't good enough, it wasn't a game. It didn't have the story in place. I couldn't do it in good faith.

So far, there hasn't been 1 good update in an entire year. 1 new pose? Oh that's great let me check out that 1 new pose, oh wait! My game just crashed because for some reason the UI is broken and super laggy, and most of the UI doesn't work (Referring to settings).

This is why releases are so slow, I don't like that people have this experience. Often this happens cause try to release builds with critical functions disabled but it would just cause more problems. I made a post some time ago that this would end and I would just finish the features.

Trying to make stable releases mid development while doing programming, design and art is extremely difficult. And above all I don't want a reputation for releases like this, I'd rather just wait. I work on this FULL TIME, and that's still just not enough.

It's clear they are just abandoning Itch.io to get more income from Patreon. But even subscribers on Patreon barely get anything! I bet even on SubscribeStar they don't get anything as well. Game is just a straight cash grab.

I'm going to tell you guys a secret, I HATE Patreon, the company not my supporters. I don't want to support a company that stalks someone's twitter to tell them to delete art posts they don't like. I've said it on Patreon multiple times that at some point the Patreon WILL close when I find more stable income streams.

Itch is one of those streams, for me itch is more important than SS and Patreon combined. And then you might ask "Well why don't we get fuckin updates!" cause of obligations. To me, itch is a place people expect a working product and I want to deliver that. On SS and patreon people pay to support development, so they are owed development updates. A single individual pays WAY more there than here on itch.

People here WILL get updates, they WILL get a product but I only ask for patience. But on supporter sites, I owe not only constant news but releases as much as reasonable. But even then releases haven't been frequent for a variety of reasons. Cause I know some of those releases will end up in the public, and I try to minimize the damage that kind of thing can cause.

I understand waiting is annoying, and I hope when the next release comes in a few months you will understand what you're really getting.

TeddyLarsen1 year ago (2 edits) (+1)

I think you're doing a wonderful job, Do I hope for more updates on Itch, Yes, but I understand your thought pattern, and I know how hard it can be to produce anything by yourself. Our Apartment looks and feels amazing so far, so I wanted to send you an encouraging message to know that I too support you and your decisions ^^.

Bandit9991231 year ago

Any word on an estimated release timeline for steam users? Been waiting for 2 years and then waited and watched the Q4 release date pass last year with no word on the status.

Just a tip: It would be nice to see an update on steam at least 1 time per quarter on the progress.