Post by Divine Diamandis in Where Winter Crows Go comments

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It's a good game, and I enjoyed it, but it's rather strange how the choices we're provided with appear to be pointless...

vv*Light spoilers!!*vv

For example, if we choose to express feeling uncomfortable that he changed the MC's clothes while they were unconscious, the MC quickly changes their mind and apologises for bringing it up (I really dislike this in particular because it makes the MC appear spineless and willing to let people cross their boundaries, or worse, it suggests the MC was unreasonable to feel that way to begin with and that feels quite invalidating -- it's perfectly acceptable to feel uncomfortable that a stranger undressed you while you were unconscious and couldn't consent, even if they had their reasons). If we choose to refuse to eat, the MC quickly changes their mind and apologises for refusing, agreeing instead. If we express feeling uncomfortable with the nickname and protest it, the MC quickly changes their mind and accepts it. If we choose to say we're unsure of whether we want to stay or not, the MC quickly changes their mind and agrees instead (although this is more understandable since we don't really have a choice in this situation, it would still be nice to see the MC express distrust and discomfort after seeing how Crowe reacted -- I think adding options on how to react after we refuse would be nice, so we're not automatically forced into the pushover role)... I understand that Crowe is meant to be emotionally manipulating the MC, but I think that should be presented in more subtle ways that don't take the agency away from the player.

^^*Light spoilers *^^

I think it takes away from immersion when we're provided with choices that don't do anything, and we're forced into an MC that we can't really control. Well, it felt to me at least like I wasn't really in control of the MC, and they feel like quite a pushover. The game feels like a kinetic novel as it is right now, since none of the choices have any impact currently. Again, I really did enjoy the game! It's just something you could work on for a future update (which I am looking forward to playing)!

I hope this doesn't come off as mean or anything, I'm just trying to help! And you can feel free to tell me if you're not looking for feedback of this sort, I'll respect that and enjoy your game nonetheless c: <3

AmaiMichelle2 years ago

I think that is a good point of view, I also don't really like MC to change their mind so much like that but maybe it's beacause Crowe try to make them feel bad kinda like manipulation.

Divine Diamandis2 years ago(+3)

Yeah, I agree with you c: !! I definitely think Crowe is meant to be emotionally manipulative, I just feel like it can be portrayed in a way that doesn't take away from the interactivity!! I think there's power in taking away agency from a player, but it only works if we had control to begin with and then lose it; that's why I think a slow progression of his manipulation would work better...

prikarin2 years ago (1 edit) (+3)

Hello! 🌸 Thanks so much for the feedback! Don't worry, it didn't come off as mean at all! I completely understand how this may have made you break immersion, it's true that this could make the MC look a bit spineless whxgwhd 💦

When I started writing this game, MC's "put off/realistic" choices actually had more impact (for instance, if they didn't want to eat anything, then they really didn't eat anything). The reason why I changed it to the way it is now is because I wanted to give a different kind of feeling. A feeling similar to being trapped because Crowe can be a really manipulative person (this is why I also added to the TW the thing about emotional abuse). A lot of the times when MC tries to be realistic, or is even put off by Crowe's actions, he will make comments that will make MC take a step back and change their mind because of guilt. I understand it probably won't be everyone's cup of tea, but rest assured that the different types of choices will result in 3 different endings 💪

Thank you for giving the game a chance! I'm glad you still enjoyed it 🥰

Divine Diamandis2 years ago(+1)

Hi!! Thank you so much for your response :D !!

I did pick up on the fact that Crowe was intended to be emotionally manipulative, but it still feels rather unnatural/jarring/spineless for the MC to change their mind just because Crowe acts sad and makes them feel bad 😭😭 I feel like more obvious attempts at manipulation only work if the player can believe they’d successfully be manipulated by them ?? Hence why I suggested more subtle forms of manipulation that don’t take away player agency, or a more gradual progression that makes taking away player agency more powerful, or perhaps more choices that allow the MC to react to Crowe (or perhaps allowing the MC to realise that something is wrong after a lot of successful manipulation attempts) ??

I’m glad to see that the story will branch after the demo, and I hope you don’t mind my suggestions (ofc you can feel free to disregard them)!! I’m a writer myself, and for some reason, I tend to be more critical towards works I enjoy TwT .. So yes, I definitely did enjoy it, and I think the full game will be quite amazing c: !!

A Rook stares2 years ago(+1)

I agree!

Divine Diamandis2 years ago(+1)

thank you :D!!

hellooblivious2 years ago(+3)

I went and replayed to see mcs reactions for those scenes and to an extent not only through the manipulation there is a sense of background understanding to why mc might feel guilty. For example the changing reactions. Manipulation aside I think it is implies some common sense to why that option understand why mc might remember thus feel guilty. If experiencing hypothermia if possible you need to get out of wet clothing and recommend in first aid to remove them as fast as possible. I think coming from that kind of angle of knowing that its less about clothes and more,, medical emergency paired with the manipulation of Crowe would make a person feel more guilty because in this case it is a life or potential medical harm case not just a 'they changed you into pjs because you seemed uncomfortable sleeping in normal clothes' scenario. I think even if the options don't amount to much in terms of ending having a second option to express discomfort or relent the topic even if feeling guilty can keep that understanding to the manipulation and why mc feels that way while still letting people have that option. Or with food, even if the cooking is still rejected Crowe once again could use the medical 'scare' from yesterday into saying food gives energy which should be needed given you used up a lot yesterday which in turn would likely give mc a reason to 'push back' as an option but eventually result in the same guilt of knowing yeah mc doesn't have many options right now and if they plan to pursue leaving would need food/energy/etc type guilt.

This isn't to say this isn't a perfect solution or what should be done but as of now i kind of understand why there is a push-over nature in the first few days as Crowe does have the leverage over the MC and even if these ideas are expanded to result something like getting upset in the later days rather than at the start they might have an effect of that sort of feeling of being manipulated into giving in. I guess what I'm really trying to say is that even though things don't amount to much right now the guilty feeling and being so easy to give in I think makes sense for MC current outcome given that they were begging to be saved by the end of the prologue and in a sense might feel need to be overly polite/give in to who was their rescuer.

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