Post by LostKei in New Playable Build 0.7.3 comments

Viewing post in New Playable Build 0.7.3 comments

I have a job if that wasnt clear and I did not insult you once.

I made a point that YOU INSULTING previous or current developers and coworkers is is wrong and that no one should be insulting you either. I'm sure EVERYONE who worked on this game worked hard. And NONE of you deserve insult... so when YOU an ACUTAL DEV insults FELLOW DEVs. thats VERY messed up.

You act like you are the only one who worked hard on this game when reading thourhg everything the posts the updates the patreon and all thats not true..You think the other devs didnt get shit? I bet you they did too if I looked. They were probably in the same indie gamedev situation that every indie gamedev goes through but YOU make it worse by treating them like shit too. You calling your current or past team memebers idiots is screwed up and nothing more than an attempt to shift blame from THE FACT this game has gotten worse since you worked on it. you act like you know so much and all these problems are everyone elses fault but if you did these problems wouldn't STILL persist.

other comments clearly state this game WAS NOT broken or as badly broken in the past. youve been here 2 years and everyone over and over again tells you the game is getting worse. this is not someone elses fault. YOU are the LEAD no?

if the project was this bad this messy when you first signed on you should have stopped all posting, all releases, and rebuilt everything from scratch. if you realized this late then you should have done it then too instead of pushing ahead. if you project manager dude by chance wouldnt let you? you should have left

Previous posts claim you guys rebuilt but reading your new comments it seems that was a lie too.

an update or two ago you claimed to have removed outdated code but theres still more? you are clearly lying, and since you are the lead you can't claim ignorance

Its very simple. The game worked a year or two ago. I doesn't now. Under your updates, code, and lead. Claiming "outdated code" after saying you removed it and insulting others is childish and as kaz put it "highly unprofessional."

A real pro apologies for the inconvenience, does the best they can, and admits when they cannot do any better, and moves aside for someone who can if necessary. They dont throw other team people who worked hard too under the buss when shit gets hard

I get the indie dev is hard. your attiude and behavior is still wrong

TheJoblessCoder1 year ago(-12)

It is clear to me that nothing I say will convince you that I am and have been working very hard and doing my best to resolve all problems and fix all of the bugs. I could if you prefer just ignore the comments instead of having to justify my job every 5 minutes to people. And then everyone will be upset that their comments are not being seen. But it would certainly be a lot less stressful on me. I am not a PR guy. I am not a people person. I write code. why do you think I work in software? If you feel that I have insulted other developers that was not my intention, but there is good and objectively bad code. And I have seen every textbook case of objectively bad code on this project.

LostKei1 year ago(+9)

Its clear you dont seem to be reading what i or anyone else wrote and avoiding valid critism which iss odd when you say you dont want to avoid it. I said you probably work hard. So did your coworkers for sure no? So calling someone you worked with or worked on your game an idiot IS INTENTIONAL childish and wrong and a defensive attempt to shift blame, especially since past builds seemed to work according to others and now the game is broken.

you need to take responsiblity for the fact this game used to work and it doesnt now since you worked on it instead of blaming "bad code" and coworkers for what is your work. It used to work. It doesnt now. If computers could run on the posted specs with less bugs before, but now it cant, how is that any coworkers or past devs fault when you are the one who has been the consistnet program lead for 2 years? this is not a hard concept to grasp

It seems like others knew what they were doing regardless if it was bad bulky spagehtti code? if it used to work, it worked. if you rewrote it and it broke then you rewrote it wrong or incompletely. calling it bad code over and over and over and over doesnt change the fact your builds are broken and past builds were NOT.

bad code is code that doesnt work. your code your changes arent working

if the game needs more time, more work, more organizing, more refactoring, more retooling, to suit your program methods so you can make a better game THEN STOP POSTING INCOMPLETELY REFACTORED BROKEN BUILDS and putting the blame on others for your incomplete refactoring

if your not a "pr guy" then yes you should probably ignore comments.

trying to be nice dude

TheJoblessCoder1 year ago (1 edit) (-4)

If the previous code which was objectively bad, unreadable, impossible to follow, not documented and with limited code comments was working, then what good would that be if no new features would have been possible to add. What would you suggest I should have done? I cant work with unreadable code if I dont have access to the person who created it for them to explain to me how it works.

LostKei1 year ago (8 edits) (+8)

Only objectively bad code is code that doesnt work and your code and changes dont no matter how clean it looks to you. That makes your changes bad. Best programmer i know writes large chucnks and spagehhti code AND gets things done. This is not uncommon. You sound like a uni grad who must conform to textbook or they cant function and even then theres many standards. code doesnt have to be short and pretty. it has to work. the opposite of too long code is too short code thats too split up to too many extra scripts and subscripts and functions and all causing bloat. If i had to guess previous team or mate used progressive protoying craft method where codes long and consolidated in one or few places. its common. focuses results and iteration over clealiness. yours id guess is clean school RCMartin minimlist where everythings really short and split up. both methods are valid but they CLASH HARD. this is no ones fault. it is very common, my own teams, have both types. just because you cant figure their code and its not your method dont make it bad. Whats bad is you calling other peoples working code bad as a sheild and bad mouthing teammates WHEN YOUR breaking otherwise working code and being paid to build off their work.

If you cant figure code from reading it and ctrl clicking through variables and functions regardless of length or method you need to get better. pro coders read code all the time with no help. K, takes longer without help but its VERY possible nd you had PLENTY of time "bad code" or not. game is around 20000 lines? Avrg dev writes/edits 200 lines a day. thats 6000 a month. knowing the code that puts refactoring to 3 months. double if you dont know it and have no help to 6 months. but according to comments and patreon you had help from a team. that brings it back down to 3 to 5 months, or more if they arent good, it happens. its been 2 years and you still blaming "bad old code" that you had more than enough time to learn refactor replace or rebuild. If you are still refactoring a platformer after 2 years you not as good as you think you are.

You say the game has 5 years worht of code from many coders? i think its changed hands 4 or 5 times? well the team or dev before you didnt have a problem with it. same boat. but you had it longest and with worse results and only you insulting others. Maybe some coworker under you recently muddied things up by ACCIDENT causing the new breaks during refactoring? even IF thats the case that doesnt make them idiots either that makes them human; you seem to say that you dont see the bugs people report on your end; physics ai and damage. things you say you fixed or replace. this is hard to belive since these are not platform specific problems and these r recent bugs from your changes. it looks like only the systems you or MAYBE someone on your watch touched are whats broken.

If for w/e reason you couldnt get hand held through old code and you couldnt use it than you shouldve rebuilt ground up for real instead of saying you did but not and pretending you can use code you admit you "cant read" is "objectively bad" and "impossible to follow" but you can somehow still use despite your contradictory claim since you refactored this far for 2 years.

Can you see how shady this looks and why people are upset? Do you see your mental gymnastics you propose and expect others to believe and nobody buys? the consistent contradictions? Your story; non of it add up: If you knew how bad it was youdve rebuilt? But you had months between taking lead and your 1st build to determine that. Codes unreable? So used it anyway. Its impoosible? But previous devs did it and then how you used refactored this far for 2 years. You rebuilt? But you didnt. You removed old code? But its still there. Its not exapndble? Old code had regular updates according to patreon and news here and you also added new things. Things are fixed fixed fixed fixed? but they arent. old specs used to work. but now they dont and that someone elses fault. Brand new bugs? But thats old coders fault when their code worked. All this while having more time and a presumbly larger team than last while badmouthing coworkers and pointing the finger at others when problems pop up. Theres no excuse on the planet that justifies you not know your games code by now. bad or not. by you or not. different approach or not. The game worked. You worked on it, broke it, gave misleading updates, insult teammates, point fingers, make excuses, get defensive and all the rest.

Guy. seriously. stop. every angle you look at this youre wrong. more you talk more it sounds like your at worst a knowitall with a superiority complex who cant to be wrong or at best a new immature insecure clean coder who really need to revaluat things. anycase its clear that your personal bias is messing your outlook and judgement. If you really want suggestions like you claim from someone whos been doing this a while. here: Be more professional and adult. Stop pr, instuling coworkrs past or present, deflecting and getting defensive, calling different methods "bad code" as a shield when that code clearly worked better. Dont shift blame. Admit when your wrong. Again I agree with the other guy, its not professional, NO ONE in the industry does this and stays long. NO ONE wants to work with hosers who act this way. It screams issues. Gosh. you dont even have to admit anything you just got to NOT do bad things and just work. Easy. EVERYONE screws up somewhere. You clearly did but wont admit it. W/e. But ONLY YOU are trashing others to save your skin for you choices actions decisions work as lead. IF youre good let your work do the talking and BE HUMBLE and respectful to the fact youre not the only one who worked this game that used to work whose code is still carrying you. stop blaming old code if YOU CHOOSE to keep using it and dont get it. Cant see the bugs? Use multiple speced computers. You should be doing this already but i have a feeling from this you arent. Dont share and add new until your refactorings complete. If you cant then rebuild FOR REAL with your own base. Lots new developers fall into the sunk cost trap and end up using code they cant work with and it looks like what you doig. Looks like you need to rebuild but your putting it off. Your having too much trouble and seriously need to consider a different approach instad of driving yourself further into the hole. If you cant do any of this; Quit. seriously. you arent doing people favors by sharing broken builds and blaming othres for your choices as lead and lack of ability to figure a simple 2d platformer. we (some of) of us get your working hard. indie IS hard. but none of that is a excuse for the games state or your behavior or your unearned superior attitude.

Thats it dude. took a break and my lunch at work to write this. ive met coders like you. saying and doing a lot of the same things. some come around. some dont. You get it or you dont. trying to give it to you straight and nice as possible. Just be act and do better guy. That all anyone can do

TheJoblessCoder1 year ago(-3)

I am sorry that my first professional job did not live up to your standards. I am doing my very best with what i've been given

LostKei1 year ago (3 edits) (+6)

wow. These arent my standards. There are many standards and methods that work. but w/e. Im done here. tried to help. You dont seem to want to get it. which is sad so ill keep this last part short. 5 years of code, no? Changed many hands? Many coders or teams? Dont you think they all were doing the best with what they were given? each past team or mate was probably handed a mess, and a mess, over and over. and they each did the best they could with it and it worked. they all could read and work with the mess. But reading back none of them insulted or shifted blame to the coworker or team under or before them . Youre trashing people who probably went through what you are going through. only they did it with dignity and didnt justify themselves or insult others or blame others or blame bad code or blame a mess or all that. they worked. and theyr work worked. no one is insulting you. you are the one insulting people, calling coworkers "idiots" and making excuses while your work does not speak for itself. gosh, dude get a clue.

just something to think about

itch.io

Viewing post in New Playable Build 0.7.3 comments