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Rezydent1 year ago (1 edit)

I got to 6th wave max.

Left/right mouse controls feel fine but could be more sensitive. Up/down is probably just right.

Diagonal controls are weird. When I go up and sideways it seems that I can do way tighter turns that normally. For separate axes it controls smoothly, but combined it doesn't seem to control the bat with the same smooth characteristic. I quickly adjusted to the inverse Y axis, but it might be a part of what makes diagonal controls confusing for me.

Except for those problems, this game controls quite well. It really holds well while flying upside down and doing other stupid shit. That's impressive even if it doesn't have proper gliding.

Camera is too close, you could probably lower fov just a bit in exchange for shifting it back. It would be nice to be able to look around without affecting flight too much (alt use for echolocation?).

This game would be an absolute blast to play if it had a bit more inertia to smooth out the flight, and if possible actual gliding physics to trade altitude for momentum.

I would like to see more, if possible with another gameplay format for flight acrobatics challenges.

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frenchfriesguy1 year ago(+1)
Left/right mouse controls feel fine but could be more sensitive. Up/down is probably just right.

I didn't even consider different sensitivities per axis. Wow that feels a lot better.

Diagonal controls are weird. When I go up and sideways it seems that I can do way tighter turns that normally. For separate axes it controls smoothly, but combined it doesn't seem to control the bat with the same smooth characteristic. I quickly adjusted to the inverse Y axis, but it might be a part of what makes diagonal controls confusing for me.

There is something different going on here. I can't tell if it's a bug or working as designed. At this point I don't understand my own flight physics/mechanics code so it's hard to say. It feels like the movement starts happening in quicker steps when doing a banked turn flying upwards.

Camera is too close, you could probably lower fov just a bit in exchange for shifting it back.

Great feedback, I just changed from 7.5 to 10 distance and 105 to 95 FoV. Feels better.

This game would be an absolute blast to play if it had a bit more inertia to smooth out the flight, and if possible actual gliding physics to trade altitude for momentum.

I'm hesitant to add more inertia because I think it will make it feel less like a bat and more like an airplane. But I would like to increase the speed overall. "Gliding" also to me feels like what an airplane does, but I plan on letting players "divebomb" to quickly drop down and gain speed.

another gameplay format for flight acrobatics challenges.

Planning on it! Some kind of fly-through-the-ring challenge with speed boosts.

Thanks for playing and for the feedback.

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Rezydent1 year ago

I forgot there are actual quotes on itch.

There is something different going on here. I can't tell if it's a bug or working as designed

I don't know shit, but you might want to map mouse control onto a sphere, which still isn't straightforward since it's 2d plane to 3d sphere, and there will be some weirdness in the corners like there is currently but probably someone came up with a solution to that before. It should at least be easier to debug when you can display your controls as a sphere.

I'm hesitant to add more inertia because I think it will make it feel less like a bat and more like an airplane. But I would like to increase the speed overall. "Gliding" also to me feels like what an airplane does

Bats are just small planes until they flap their wings

I'd agree that inertia would make it hard to make the controls responsive and you can easily overdo it, but you can also think about this in another way: smoothing out the movement and allowing camera to do more work. Right now the camera and movement coordination feels stiff. I move my mouse and bat almost instantly heads to that direction, after some struggle. I just replayed it and noticed that the way you implement the controls is unusual because it's like camera itself feels affected by the bat rather than camera pointing direction for the bat to go to. Implementing some inertia or just smoothing the turns will allow you to do wider mouse movements to allow for tighter turns by overcompensating without spazzing out - right now it feels like I'm fighting against the bat rather than steering to the direction I want to go to.

Once you get this right implementing gliding physics will feel like a no brainer decision.

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frenchfriesguy1 year ago
It should at least be easier to debug when you can display your controls as a sphere

Giving myself better visual debugging tools is going to be a big part of cracking what exactly is going on in the flight physics/mechanics. It's been too difficult to debug through logging or stepping through code while flying.

I'm really motivated to make the flying different from how an airplane is expected to feel. It's tough because lots of players (and myself) can't help but compare the bat to a plane but I feel like it's fundamental to my design goal to differentiate from airplane games.

it's like camera itself feels affected by the bat rather than camera pointing direction for the bat to go to

This is interesting feedback because the camera absolutely is just lagging behind the bat as the bat flies. This is intentional to try to make it feel less stiff. I have some camera logic to 'lean into' turns, as the bat rotates the camera should rotate in that direction as well. Maybe if I intensify that effect I can make the camera feel more natural. Also the camera could be a bit intelligent and bias towards gameplay goals, but the gameplay is still so earlier I don't want to worry about that yet.

It's tough because players want a fast, smooth, agile, responsive bat. They want an airplane! I need to find a way to keep it from being frustrating while presenting a unique flying style.

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Rezydent1 year ago

Yeah, debugging anything that's realtime and math heavy is not viable. I usually have graphs, hitboxes and additional interfaces to help, together with pausing and frame by frame manual increments.

You can always make it control sexy first and add the bat jank second by tweaking the bat flight parameters and animation for realism without touching the camera and general control style. Doing it the other way around is unlikely to give a good result and you will be left with a prototype you can't even reuse. I wouldn't mind janky flight as long as it doesn't feel like I'm fighting with stiff controls.

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