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aeiowu8 years ago

right on, forest is a toughie because we still have fun with the forest and also want new players to have fun too. it's important for experts to enjoy the forest in certain ways even if they are playing a more "maximize efficiency" game. so that's one reason pink spiders are in there, esp now with the recent economy changes.

re: the random start room. i'd love this too, but it's tough because we feel it would incentivize quick restarts to re-roll until you got what you wanted. exploring powers/mechanics is something we really need to find a way to offer. right now we're talking about extending the height of the crystal/random rooms and throwing some dummies up above with a few preplanted versions of each suit offered to be able to practice in that way.

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clangmuir8 years ago

I've been thinking about this. The game isn't really interesting to me until I get a different seed from the starting ones, and also a good starting seed can be the difference between a game winning run and a waste of time. For instance, if I get Thomp in the first biome, I'm almost guaranteed a boss run, regardless of what else shows up.

Why not just let players just pick a non-standard seed to start? Maybe not unlock it right away, like maybe not until you've beat the Forest, or Jungle, or Desert, or Arctic (there are good arguments for any of these). This would let players have a bit more ownership over their own play style, but still maintain the randomness (you only get to pick one) and would let players safely explore how seeds work without feeling like they're wasting their chance at a good run.

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aeiowu8 years ago

right on, i like the idea of leaning into it. maybe there's something there with earning that ability or something through a quest(s)... or we just give you the choice after X runs etc. it's worth toying with for sure!

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dlask8 years ago

or yeah maybe if you come across the seed type in a run then it becomes available to the beginning of the game selection.

This is tough cause I feel like I personally have an optimal strategy or specific seeds that I feel in combination are a bit overpowered, especially towards the top of the mountain. Maybe it's a matter of balancing those abilities, but yeah I do like having to deal with what your dealt, and I wonder if that gets lost when letting players just choose the starting seeds.

Or maybe you can choose X suits (up to 4) and you incur some kind of debuff like seeds costing more. There's a lot to consider/toy with here!

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clangmuir8 years ago

I think picking more than 1 standard seed would wreck a lot of what makes the game great. I was suggesting just being able to pick one non-standard starting seed. That way combinations of seeds are still a matter of chance, but it means you don't get something that's completely useless for farming in the first biome.

Also, means players have a safe space to experiment with how seeds work (if you die in the first biome trying out a seed, you aren't risking anything).

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aeiowu8 years ago

i think you sorta nailed it with that last bit about experimenting with how seeds work and i think that's the real problem. it's not that there are only a handful of good seeds (and there is imbalance for sure, but that's easily dealt with), it's more that players aren't comfortable practicing with new seeds to get to the point where they can use each one effectively. the descriptions are partly to blame for this, since they are clear but false in some ways in that it's impossible to accurately describe how they work with text alone. i hope to put together animations of some flavor to remedy this and we're also talking about adding preplanted suits and etc in the crystal rooms to give a place to play with these things. while i'm not sure that's the actual answer either, i do think giving players opportunity to play with seeds of every kind will open up folks to new ways of solving different problems with a number of different seeds.

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