Post by Melancholy Marionette in Darling Duality comments

Viewing post in Darling Duality comments

That’s totally understandable :3 I mean, I personally don’t tend to play demos at all, regardless of the state they’re in, haha. I just find it kind of annoying to only be able to play part of a game knowing I’ll have to play a section again if I play the full release! If I like the look of something, I’ll just wait until it’s finished. There are a couple of reasons why the demo is the way it is, but I’ve spoken about them before in previous comments, so I’ll try not to ramble too much >.<

The first one is that all those dead ends do go somewhere in my working copy, and it was easier to just block players from accessing them than create a separate version with all the branches entirely removed because, at the time, I didn’t have any space left on my hard drive and no alternative devices to create copies/backups on x3

And the second reason was kinda to take some of the pressure to respond to certain things off of myself a bit because a lot of people seemed to be under the impression after seeing Manly’s video of the old jam version of the game that the thing is entirely about Castor/ia, which it isn’t >.< It’s just that, at the time, I was working on the project for a jam that only lasts 1 month, and so I needed to create something that was self-contained enough to submit by the jam deadline while also keeping it open to continue later on.

I was being bombarded with questions about whether or not there was more to come for Castor/ia or if everything in Manly’s video was it. The jam version just didn’t reflect how I intend the project to be overall, so I tried to give a better idea of the direction I hoped to take it in by doing a UI overhaul, showing the beginning of how the personality system works, and showing that there is

A: More to Castor/ia’s story + B: Other branches available that are unrelated to Castor/ia.

I can totally see how it would be annoying to keep getting hit with dead end options though! But for me personally, it has saved me a lot of time answering the same questions over and over again by having the current demo out there x3 If you’re interested in seeing the self-contained version, the original jam version of the game is still available to download on the page for posterity.

QwanGetMad1 year ago(+1)

Yeah that does make sense, and people knowing the potenital range of the full game is good.

I think being able to differentiate the active and inactive options in the demo might be good. I dunno if it's doable but maybe the text or background colour could be slightly different (while still maintaining a good contrast).

I understand you're balancing a lot of things in doing this though.

RE demo's in general, I have really bad memory so I don't mind playing a demo to get excited because in a few months all I'll know is 'I really want to play this' but not any of what the demo had haha. It works well for replay value and makes it less cumbersome to have just a demo in the meantime.

But some games end up being abandoned and it's sad when both the fans and author get blueballed by whatever situation makes it impossible to finish the game lol

If you are able to make tweaks like I mentioned, I'll try the demo out again, but if not, I'll wait until it's fully ready. So best of luck with the project.

Melancholy Marionette1 year ago(+1)

It would be fairly easy to differentiate the options in the current demo now that I have more knowledge about UI and stuff :3 At the time of making the updated demo though, I still didn't know all that much about how Unity UI works >.< There's quite a lot I would change now that I've learned a lot more, haha.

If it weren't such a massive pain in the butt and time-consuming to export and upload builds, I'd make fixes like that and update the demo cos actually making the changes would be fairly quick, but it's so much hassle to make new builds that it's not really worth the stress >.<

Hehe, my brother plays demos repeatedly while waiting for releases! And he binges trailers for everything, whereas I tend not to even watch trailers x3

I mean, this demo is here too early really because the game is nowhere near finished. Unlike my shorter jam projects, this one is a big, long-term thing that will take me years to make.

The only reason it's even labeled as a demo at all is because of the whole thing again of constantly being asked if there will be more story >.< I didn't want people to keep making the assumption that the old upload was all there was ever going to be. At the same time though, I don't want people to expect it to be finished any time soon.

When I made the self-contained version of it for the jam, I had every intention of continuing it at some point, but in a very casual way over a long period of time. I wasn't expecting it to ever get any attention, so I had planned to put it on the back-burner because I knew I likely wouldn't be able to afford to get the rest of it voiced (as the VAs in it were basically doing a favour to the voice director by voicing in it at short notice for the jam). And even now, I don't have anywhere near enough funding to get everything I have planned fully voiced. Not to mention the issue that a heck of a lot of time passed between the initial jam release and the game getting attention, so the VAs involved have moved on to other things and are unlikely to reprise their roles >.<

It also doesn't help that this somehow seems to have become my most popular project, but it's not a priority project for me personally because I have other stuff to finish before I finish this >.< For example, I have an older project than this which is already fully-written and a full-length script like my first ever release. It would be kind of insane for me to work on writing and stuff for this when I already have a finished script for a different project that needs making into a playable game x3

I'll get there with everything eventually, but my progress on projects outside of jams with deadlines is pretty slow cos I'm just one person doing it all as a hobby, haha.

It does suck when stuff gets abandoned. I've backed a few projects in the past on Kickstarter and stuff that never saw the light of day cos the team behind em broke down :(

I'd like to hope that folks here who are interested in this particular project would look at my profile in general and see that I do finish what I've started :3 Life has a habit of getting in the way a lot, so it's gonna take a heck of a long time to get anywhere with a long one like this, but I don't plan to abandon it. I just have other stuff that takes priority like game jams and finishing that other long-term project first x3

Thank you for the luck! I feel like I will need it, haha :3

QwanGetMad1 year ago(+1)

Wow yeah that's a lot of work. As a non developer, I don't know how hard most of these things are, or at least time consuming, or how many annoying bugs can pop up when you fix one thing. So that's fair.

Yeah sounds like you're doing a lot and it's amazing as a 1 person team. :) haha your brother sounds like my ex, they get reallyyyy into things and binge every available crumb possible for as long as possible. Waiting years for one episode of a series or chapter of a game. Lol It's honestly impressive. I just forget for ages then come back like 'Oh this seems like something I would like. Oh, I did like it, 3 times already apparently. Nice taste, past me!' lol

Yeah if I'm interested in a dev, the first thing I do is look at their profile at anything else they do, I'm sure I'm not alone in that. :D On that note, I've been wanting to play Apartment no 9and bitter sweet for a while! lol

Best of luck with your projects. I wonder if starting multiple games is similar to fabric crafters starting multiple projects and half finishing them. It seems like a general 'creative person' problem, that we have too many ideas and create too many projects for a lifetime. Just kinda funny.

I'll keep checking on progress on your games anyway, I appreciate your in-depth replies, I'm sure feedback can be really nerve wracking and I always appreciate when someone is really open and welcoming of feedback especially as I don't always know if it's going to hit someone on a bad day!

Melancholy Marionette1 year ago(+1)

I think it's virtually impossible for players to envision how much time it takes to achieve different things with game dev unless they've dipped their toes into it themselves, haha. Same as I'd have no idea how much time and effort goes into getting an F1 car up and running or something x3 Actually, dealing with bugs as a solo dev is almost as time-consuming as making the games themselves xD It's so hard to test everything and attempt to anticipate how players might behave when you're just one person. And the longer the game or the more branches it has, the harder it gets >.< Add in the fact that everyone is playing on a different setup to you and it just kinda becomes a bit of an impossible task, haha. I do my best, but I don't think I'd ever manage to get my games running 100% smoothly for everyone cos there's always something lurking out there that will go wrong x3

Hehe, weeell, I wouldn't say my brother is quite THAT bad x3 but he is definitely a completionist! He plays most things on Xbox, and he will not discard them until he's unlocked every achievement possible. He'll also go back through a long game just to find 1 tiny thing that he missed. He'd actually be pretty good at playtesting, I imagine! But he won't touch my stuff since it can't possibly be decent if his sister made it T_T

It's cool that you do that, and I always assumed that's what many people do since I'm also the same! But from looking at my project's analytics, I can see that a pretty hefty majority of my followers here on itch dropped in for this project in particular, and haven't even viewed my other ones, let alone downloaded em to check em out xD Which to me is incomprehensible because if I play something I like from a dev, I wanna know everything else they've done since, chances are, I will like at least 1, if not more, of their other projects x3 It makes it feel a bit like DD is a cursed project, haha.

That's extremely interesting to me that you'd be curious about Apartment No.9 as well! It's one of my least-viewed/played projects x3 but I do actually think it's better than DD, haha. Actually, it was the first ever project that I teamed up with people for during a jam!

And Bitter/Sweet is special to me because I got to make it with my good friend Lazy Polar Bear, but also because it's the one closest to home. I tend to stay away from putting too much of myself into projects, but with that one, I decided to see how it would work out. There's still 1 route remaining to add to that project, but the other route is fully playable :3

Thank you very much for the luck! I feel like it's something I could always do with having plenty of x3 Haha, I think you're probably right there about the multiple projects dilemma! I've spoken to many devs over the years who have multiple things on the go at once xD It's like a curse >.< I try to keep it somewhat under control by stopping myself from just starting new things every time an idea comes to me, haha. And I have a priority list atm which looks something like: Try to get an episode of The Masked Marionette out before the end of 2023 - Finish 2nd Bitter/Sweet route for Yandere Jam 2024 - Construct & release Clarity in Qualia before continuing to write for Darling Duality - Continue working on Darling Duality while participating in a limited number of game jams x3 So there's a plan there, haha. It's just one that spans years and is gonna take a long time to complete xD

Oh, yeah, feedback is a tricky beast, haha. It can hit differently at different times depending on your mood and frame of mind. I think genuine constructive feedback like yours is always helpful and appreciated, even if it ends up being something I'm incapable of implementing! What's not helpful is when someone essentially just verbally assaults you with a list of things they dislike and provides no reasoning as to why while also offering no constructive form of doing things differently x3 I think the problem with a lot of feedback that devs get is that often, it's related to the story of the projects they're creating, and unless a dev has specifically asked for feedback on that element, it's more than likely unhelpful and unwanted >.< When it comes to the more technical side of things though, constructive criticism can help make the game much better!

Anyways, thank you for everything you've taken the time to write up so far :3 I genuinely appreciate it when I have the opportunity to engage with people at length like this! Hope you're having a fabulous spooky season so far :D

QwanGetMad1 year ago(+1)

Yeah sometimes I see indie devs be like 'I don't have that computer so I can't figure out how to make it run on one'. And it often makes me wonder how much of the commercial expectations we're putting on indie devs. Like a big company absolutely should have it run on multiple platforms, and have the people to iron out as many bugs as possible. My ex used to work for a company where is job was just to play a section of a game over, and over, and over until he could identify or fix a bug lol

It's sometimes hard to know which of those expectations are possible for indie devs and which are asking them to do 50 well paid jobs for free. lol

Yeah I always try to make my feedback be balanced with suggestions, because if I'm just like 'I hate this thing' it's like .. ok, feeling noted. All I've shared is a feeling, not any.. er, real problem? I like writing accessibility reviews on steam, so in terms of story critique, I sometimes critique poorly handled subjects they don't know enough (like when someone uses a mental illness as drama and gets it wrong and adds to stigma) or when there's a plot hole that's not just funny but genuinely confusing. Sometimes that works out for the best, as it becomes a space for fan theories or it's revealed they're aiming to do sequels on those things. But if the story isn't for me, I just say that in the review and try to make sure it's clear what you could expect if it is for you. Rather than berate the dev.

Obviously, I'm not really using itchio comments the same way (unless I actually finished the game) but it's nice to get real convos going with the devs and it does help change how I might critique stuff. I also sometimes speak to a techy friend who can offer some insight as well. I think it's important because otherwise it's more like shouting into the void, but pointing at someone in particular. Not very helpful. lmao

I love the art work on Apartment no 9, that's what drew me in initially, it's unique. Likewise the story seems unique, so I'll definitely get it. I can't decide which version to play because I like the male designs for all of them (but the partner, who I prefer female). lmao I'm so shallow when it comes to characters! But I'm looking forward to playing Bitter/Sweet when the next route is out too!

Thanks, I hope your day is going fantastic too :D

Melancholy Marionette1 year ago(+1)

Sorry it’s taken me so long to get back to you >.< Now that October is well under way, I’ve been pretty busy going to as many scare attractions as I can since it’s pretty much what I live for xD Managed to get ill in the process though, so a mix of the two has meant I’ve not even been on my PC since the 12th.

Yeah, I’ve also seen many people say they don’t even bother making Mac and Linux builds because they don’t have the systems to test on and don’t want to get pelted with help requests from players if it doesn’t work or there are bugs cos the devs just have no way of fixing stuff like that >.< I just put Mac and Linux stuff out there and hope to hell it works, haha. But I also have no way of verifying whether those builds work or not, and no way of fixing stuff if it doesn’t. I’ve heard it’s fine to do that on itch, but a bad idea if you’re putting stuff on Steam, which is understandable.

I’ve always thought it must be a bit like a weird version of hell having to be a proper tester for a company, working on one tiny section of something x3 I mean, it’s a good way of getting rid of as many bugs as possible, but it must be quite torturous for the testers! I find trying to test a whole game by myself absolute hell, haha. And it hurts to know there will almost always be bugs of some kind because it’s impossible to catch everything by yourself x3

But yeah, I definitely think a lot of folks don’t realise just how much indie devs are putting in, and it is kinda unfair to hold em to the same standards as proper studios and companies who have entire teams working on projects. I know it gets trickier when money is involved cos if you’re purchasing a product, you want it to work correctly, but proper small time indie devs putting stuff out for free or for under $5 could use some slack and understanding, haha. Most importantly, patience from their players. Cos many do wanna make sure things work as well as they can, but they’re either 1 person struggling to do everything themselves, or 1 very small team where everyone has day jobs and other commitments cos dev stuff doesn’t pay the bills, so it’s gonna take time for them to get stuff sorted.

I’m glad that you realise all that though and bring it up because sometimes it feels like folks don’t necessarily realise or consider these things x3

And yeah, when it comes to comments/feedback/reviews, sharing feelings is fine when it’s positive stuff cos that can cheer a dev up and boost their motivation, but if it’s just sharing of negative feelings with nothing constructive, it’s just hurtful without being any sort of helpful, haha.

It is pretty rocky ground trying to critique poorly handled subjects. I’ve come across that sort of thing in a few games I’ve played and kind of wanted to say something but opted not to just on the off chance I might be making incorrect assumptions >.< Especially after someone commented about insensitivity on one of my projects without knowing the context it was written in! For starters, it was one of my adaptation projects, so the character in question wasn’t even mine >.< but I don’t think the commenter realised that. And the additional original lines and such that I added for the character in relation to the subject the commenter had called insensitive were actually lines spoken to me by a friend who was in the same situation as the character at the time! They were words that really hit me at the time, so they’ve stuck with me ever since. Yet the commenter accused me of something like adding to stigma >.< I wasn’t even able to explain to them that they were words spoken by an actual person I knew myself because they left the comment as a review, and itch doesn’t allow devs to respond to reviews :(

So yeah, it’s tough, haha. I always have that in mind when I go to comment on stuff myself because even if it seems like someone might not know what they’re talking about, I have no way of actually knowing what their personal experiences are with different subjects >.< For the most part, I’ve just ended up adopting the whole ‘if you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all’ approach, haha. It’s a bit different when it comes to jams cos if I encounter technical faults, I’ll try to bring them up in jam-specific comments, and leave game page comments just for praise cos I know if I had a bug I would hope that someone would point it out, even if they don’t know how to fix it, cos if I don’t know it exists, I can’t try to fix it x3

Apartment No.9 is actually the one that someone raged at me for insensitivity >.< haha. But as I mentioned, the base story is an adaptation of 1 episode of an anthology TV series, I just built on top of it and also extended it. I worked with Maneki Mushi to make the original otome version during Otome Jam, and then LPB came and saved the day to help me make the BxG version too post-jam, which is why the sprite art is completely different.

Hope you’re having a merry spooky season so far!

itch.io

Viewing post in Darling Duality comments