Post by FerreTrip in Gift of Gains comments

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Played a few minutes. A bit disappointed there's no music or sprite expressions at all, but this is a very early build and I'm betting a one-man show, so I understand :) The art's very nice and stylish, too, really emphasizes how skinny everyone is at the start! Fun concept, as well, slowly making others bigger.

However, the writing is...um...well, while at least Phil's reactions were pretty great, Eugene is...not a character I'd like to play as for long. He's pushy and seems self-serving with his goals. It doesn't feel like he genuinely wants to help the people of the town, more like he just wants to enlarge people. He is definitely more of a trickster, which is always fun, but I can't really relate to him much at all.

We don't see him struggling with any personal problems, at least as far as I could see, and he's always in control of the situation--not something much of your audience would find relatable. Him being so damn pushy with Phil comes off as selfish to me. His default expression being "smug" makes me feel like less like he's confident and more like he's cocky. From his dialogue with the mayor, he...also kinda sounds a bit crazy, and not in a good way ^^;

And then there's his actions--he's focused entirely just on growing the mayor and other people, and at least with Phil being revealed to simply wanting praise and attention, it doesn't quite feel like he's doing it from a good place in his heart. Again, he is very pushy with forcing poor Phil into getting bigger, and at least as someone who values his agency, that makes him feel more like an antagonistic character than not. Overall, he feels more like a mere vessel to induce growth, and with the premise of the VN so far being just "make people huge", that's telling me this won't be that interesting a read--that all there is to this is growth. No real substance, just growth. Eugene needs to be more nuanced and have depth to himself before he's a character I really wanna see succeed. Right now? I kinda wish he'd actually leave these people alone, if he treats the frickin' mayor the way he does. Reminds me of a door-to-door salesman in a way.

I think this VN could be great, I really do! But so far it's too much like your average growth story on FA to me. If you could add some stakes, give readers a reason to seriously care about what happens to the characters (especially Eugene) aside from growing bigger, that would help a lot. As it is now? I know there's more beyond the first stuff with the mayor, but I don't really want to continue reading.

I'm sorry for the bad review, especially since I haven't read much at all, I really am, but...I think you can do better. I can see a lot of potential here, with the art and the concept and all. I want to see this VN be good, to be enjoyable and fun and at least a little complex, but it's too dry for me right now. It's good as growth fiction, but it's not so great as fiction. If you can make Eugene a deeper, more nuanced character, that would help immensely. But as of now, as long as he's the protagonist, I don't wanna read it any farther. You've failed to really hook me in the beginning with an interesting character, and that's kind of a big deal.

I really hope this story improves later on, and I wish you all the luck in continuing it. Keep going! You can make something really fun, I know you can! ^^

Breecer12166 days ago(+1)(-3)

Why do you want an overly deep and complex narrative to what is effectively a fetish game? I don't want the author to focus on a grander narrative, I want them to focus on what drives me to read and engage with it, IE, the very thing it WANTS you to engage with. I don't need the author to create some huge, omega class world building and deep intricate lore for their clearly fetish based visual novel. And isn't that the point of Eugene's character? At least from what I have gathered, he's a slippery conniving self-serving man who is really only doing this because he likes doing it, not because he's genuinely invested in people's lives and improving them, which is perfectly fine with me. I don't need a protagonist to be relatable all of the time, sometimes I just want to read a story where what I see is more or less exactly what I get. The characters, the plot, the stakes. All of it.

Of course this could all be subject to change, but I don't know, it kind of feels like you expected this to be something it just won't be and should not be.

FerreTrip166 days ago (1 edit) (+1)(-2)

Um...no? I didn't say I wanted something deep and complex? I wanted something decent, not a huge novel. It's a fetish game, I don't expect it to be very deep. But I at the very least expect the protagonist to be at least a little loveable, even just likeable. That takes a bit more than what's here.

What's here is a protagonist who seems to be little more than a vessel for spreading the fetish around the story world. That's fine in your standard FurAffinity stuff, but this is a visual novel. I think it's fair to expect it's a bit deeper than a puddle. As it is now, it's literally "guy forces people to get big and we watch". I've seen it before, and while it's fun for a short-form thing, expecting me to stay interested for longer? Nope, sorry.

If Eugene was more likeable, that's different. Then we feel more compelled to see him succeed. But for now, he's incredibly one-dimensional. That's fine for a sort of "just watching things unfold" character who does nothing but observe, but as the one causing the growth? I need more to chew on, or I'm just going to get bored.

Yes, it's fine to want a story where WYSIWYG, it's fine to have a protag you can't exactly relate to, but what's wrong with wanting a protagonist who doesn't make you want to punch him in his smug-ass face? Who wants to play as the same kind of self-serving dick as the ones we see running corporations and holding political office? Not me.

I'm not asking for anything complex. I'm asking for something that isn't bitter and hollow. This is literally FurAffinity fare but with way more extra steps. If this is just a learning-to-VN thing, that's totally fine, but I don't see anything indicating that.

Breecer12166 days ago (1 edit) (-2)

Why do you feel the need to "like the protag"? Not every protag is meant to be likeable, relatable, perhaps, but personally, I feel like Eugene is supposed to be an observer and not a partaker, that's exactly why he's doing the things he does in the story. He's not there in the new town to hang out and make friends and do wholesome stuff, he's there because he wants to have fun messing around with people's lives and making them grow.

Believe it or not, I do want to see him succeed in his goals, even if he's a bad person. Because his goals align with what I want to see in the story. And how is any of this story bitter and hollow? It seems to just be a humorous self-serving kind of thing for both Eugene and the reader, which is, you know, the whole point of the novel.

Perhaps that's the whole point of Eugene's character, that he IS a bad person who wants to manipulate people's lives, and one should not automatically expect him to grow and develop into a better person. If he does in a natural way, that's fine, but I'm perfectly okay with a bad person who does bad things for bad reasons, as long as they are entertaining (Like, Jack Horner, for example). I just think that your expectations are a bit out of place.

FerreTrip166 days ago(-2)

I need to "like the protag" or at least feel they're relatable because without that, it's not fun for me to read. As for humorous, maybe I just take it a little too seriously because I suppose it's meant to be taken seriously in-world, to a degree. I didn't say he needs to become a better person in the story, but I think he can make people grow and stuff without being so damn selfish about it.

And if you think my expectations are a bit out of place, I'd like to direct you to a fat VN called Worshippers of the Gain. That has you going around encouraging/directly fattening others without being a jackass, and it's plainly all about the fat stuff. Not too much character stories, it's all horny stuff. It helps there IS an overarching story, but the point I'm making here is you CAN make a fetishy VN with what I'm expecting and STILL have it satisfy what you're looking for.

Keep downvoting me all you want, it's clear you just disagree with what I said and have an entirely different idea of what this should be like. From the start, though, I wasn't looking for YOUR input, but the creator's. If THEY say it's meant to be how it is, then I'll respect that. It honestly kinda sounds like you're telling me I'm completely wrong and stupid for expecting this out of the game/story, when it was all just my opinion to begin with.

Breecer12166 days ago (1 edit) (+1)(-1)

How is it not fun to read about someone who is a bad person doing bad things? Always Sunny in Philadelphia has a whole cast of people who are despicable people, and a lot of people love that show. And if the author says that they intended Eugene to be the way he is, then what? You'll just say, oh, okay, bye then? How do you not eventually make the assumption that Eugene is probably not somebody you should think is a good person? He shows a clear lack of respect for Phil's agency and is clearly just doing this because he wants to watch people grow and get bigger, (LIKE HOW EVERYONE PLAYING THIS NOVEL WANTS TO). He does not need to be a good person, nor does he need to be relatable. Entertaining, yes, compelling, yes to that as well, but not relatable. That should not be a deal breaker for you.

And why are you assuming that I'm downvoting you? I don't need to do something like that to get my point across or anything like that. It's probably somebody else, idk. Why would you even point that out?

And no, I don't believe this story should really be taken that seriously because I believe that it's not meant to be serious and nor should it be.

And yes, I think that you are wrong, but you're putting words in my mouth when you say that I told you that you are stupid. No, I did not, I told you that what you were proposing seemed to be wrong, from my POV.

FerreTrip166 days ago (2 edits)

Oh, shit, sorry, I thought you were the one downvoting me ^^; Huh, they're downvoting almost everyone, actually.... Must be a troll.

And for me, it's not fun reading about bad people doing bad things because there's more than enough of that in real freaking life. Yes, we want to watch people grow, but I don't want to have it happen to them because some crazy maniac is thrusting the growth onto them. I want it to be a TINY bit more nuanced. I'm not asking for something deep, I just want it to be a little fuller than it is. I personally don't find Eugene to be very entertaining as things are right now.

I'm sorry if you thought I was putting words in your mouth; that's why I said "sounds like".

Breecer12166 days ago

That's okay, I just don't like when people assume wrongly about my words on the internet, even though I understand that conveying certain things on the internet is far more difficult than over the phone or in person and my intention was not to insult you or anything like that. But personally, I just think that as long as he is somebody like Jack Horner or Handsome Jack, I'd be fine with him being a bad person doing bad things. And going by the story, that's probably what is going to happen with the introduction of the beach place, where he can find more people that he can grow and get into more wacky shenanigans.

Garr998881 days ago

It took me a while to actually play the game after seeing your comment first, and I can agree with parts of both your POV and Breecer's.

Personally, though maybe this is just my bias for character design, perhaps Eugene's personality wouldn't be received so poorly (at least by you and those who agree, which I say with no judgement) if his backstory as a mass-fixated apothecary were conveyed at the beginning before his conversation with Phil, and if he were visibly designed to look more dramatic and opulent than he does now. A grandiose personality with a Joe Schmoe outfit creates dissonance, but if he looks the way he acts, then you know what you're in for, y'know?

But, of course, redesigning him or all the other NPCs to look more maximalized and fantastical is a lot of work to have to do, especially with animated scenes and all the different physique alts. So, unfortunately, that's likely not very feasible.

I may make this the focus of a separate content, but maybe Eugene's personality (his overwhelming forwardness and such) would be softened if the game had a little more "breathing room" with its text. Instead of a constant stream of dialogue and action outside of the growth scenes, taking time to describe things and give space between dialogue might make it feel less intense to players?

I don't always need the protagonist to effectively be a self-insert, but even then, some players are more proactive, dominant, forward with their desire to grow NPCs. I wouldn't say Eugene is "unrelatable", just relatable to a different demographic.

As for his desire to help the town being "selfish" and not exactly from a good place, I can again see your point - not that that's necessarily a bad thing, writing-wise. It's all about the framing and how the material wants you to take something. But, you could choose to take the growth Eugene provides as a kind of symbolic, meta-textual parallel-ism (to use big, fancy writing words). Eugene is helping these people get what they want, and what they want is just being tied to growth; the growth is just a representation of their progression for their route towards happiness and fulfillment.

And regarding "wanting more" from a VN but it feeling like an "average FA growth story", I also see your point there. On one hand, it's cool to see the kind of content and scale of an average FA story being elevated by using the VN medium to convey it. At the same time, when VNs are inherently a different medium than written stories, it's kind of convention to give them, and thus to expect from them, more substance and consideration. It depends on who you ask, I suppose.

Sorry if drudging up such an old comment is unwelcome, I just wanted to give my two cents!

itch.io

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