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Lightning bolt is broken + few other thoughts

A topic by dreamyDragonite created Jan 08, 2024 Views: 554 Replies: 8
Viewing posts 1 to 7

Hello! Apologies for the long wall of text to follow.

First off, I wanted to say what an incredible game this is. I’ve been playing for a few months now and I’m constantly impressed at the delicate balance of difficulty and skill this game requires throughout every class. I hope you keep at it cause it's genuinely one of the best browser-based I've ever had the pleasure of running into.

With that said, there's one major balancing issue I've encountered, and it's that Lightning Bolt is broken. The spell is game-warping, to the point that if I’m any casting class and I gain access to Lightning Bolt, I pretty much stop using anything else and become a knockoff storm mage for the rest of the game. It turns a layered, strategical game into a glorified point and click.

Let’s review some of its features:

- It has a superior range (5) to most attacking spells, bar a few exceptions (Burst of Flame, Life Spike) which have major handicaps in positioning and power respectively

- You can target anything within that range without being blocked by other enemies (unlike Fire Ball). Another benefit over Fire Ball is that you can target monsters directly in front of you without getting splashed, as opposed to having to target the tile next to them (and missing out on the damage bonus)

- Speaking of the damage bonus, which is obtainable by the end of the first dungeon, it turns half the mobs into one-hit-kills. At worst, I’m usually able to three-hit-kill any mob in the game that’s not a boss or generates with some special ability (strong, regeneration, etc). Not only does this simplify the game massively, it also removes almost any incentive to use more expensive spells with a higher base power (Ice Lance, Shock, etc) because it can deal more damage at a lower cost without any of their built-in limitation

- Liquid terrain transforms it into widespread, critical hitting wrecking ball. This might seem to add to the complexity in using it (especially if you don’t have levitation), but water/toxic is incredibly abundant in the game and I’ve found it trivially easy to position enemies to get the bonus, even with a single speed point to maneuver around. What’s more, water (unlike grass) is a reusable resource, meaning once you’re in position you can pretty much sit still and spam til everything is dead. On top of that, levitation (which you can also get by the end of the first dungeon as a storm mage and is a relatively common ability otherwise) removes the only element of risk and incentivizes you to simply run for water and spam the rare times that you can’t one-hit-kill what’s in front of you

- I believe it ignores protection? I’m still not clear on how spells and protection interact, especially since it seems that regular staff bolts are affected by protection, but regardless, that removes yet another challenging aspect from the game

- …and all of this for the lowest cost of any spell in the game

So basically, as early as by the end of the first dungeon, you’re given a one-hit kill spell that’s incredibly spammable due to a lethal combination of power, cost, and range and that, with minimal effort, becomes a large aoe, critical hit that decimates four or five mobs at a time. There is incredibly little incentive to use any other spell once you’ve gotten it for the rest of the game, bar one or two utilities. I’ve had multiple winning runs where I’ve had nothing other than Lightning Bolt to cast and never felt like I needed to use anything else

As for suggestions, I believe the most effective thing to do would be to remove the damage bonus entirely; I realize this mirrors the damage bonus for other low level spells such as Fire Ball and Cone of Cold, but at the very least it would force you to look for water to deal maximal damage. I’d also consider some combination of restricting the range to 4 after upgrades, making it more expensive by a mana point, or requiring a higher intelligence to unlock. Storm Mage in general feels like one of the most powerful classes at the moment simply due to the combination of levitation and water conductivity mechanic, but Lightning Bolt pushes it far over the edge.

TL;DR Lightning Bolt is such a spammable, low risk/high reward spell that it eliminates virtually any incentive to use anything else and simplifies an otherwise complex, interesting game massively.


Just a few other minor remarks/suggestions/thoughts/etc:

- The Ice version of Yendor feels significantly more difficult than any other version, I think due to the grabbing ability of the golems and the constant healing of them by Yendor. It doesn’t feel… unfair, per se, but it is difficult enough that I’ll start stockpiling scrolls and potions midgame on the off-chance that it ends up being the final stage of the game (which I haven’t needed for any other Yendor version). Maybe consider slight reducing either the health of the golems or how many of them spawn in the final room?

- Of all the side-dungeons, the Core feels by far the weakest and least worthwhile. The mini-boss items are relatively useless outside the Core itself and the design feels a little bland (it’s really just a series of lava puddles), as opposed to the Iron Foundry or the Crypt which have a number of beautiful custom-designed levels. The bosses are also simultaneously very difficult without some form of levitation (as they both spawn in lava pools) and a little underwhelming in terms of reward

- Dexterity seems to get the short end of the stick in terms of power compared to strength or intelligence. Often I’ll cap out around 14 with my bows, whereas melee weapons can pretty easily get into the early 20s and staves usually end up in the high teens. I don’t know if this is intentional, since bows do have a number of other benefits (range, notably), but it felt noticeable enough in-game that I thought I’d mention it

- I’ve found it very hard to justify using two-handed weapons during my runs, not only because of the opportunity cost of not having the protection a shield offers, but because it means I can’t use Shield Block/Shields Up, two extremely useful abilities that show up early and often. Maybe add an ability geared specifically towards the use of two-handed weapons to compensate for this loss? It’s too bad because the two-handed designs are some of the coolest in the game

I think that’s it. Lightning Bolt put aside, this game feels remarkably well-balanced and it’s a blast to play. Keep up the great work!

Agreed, LB is completely busted. Having square range as well, it can outrange 7 range enemies on a diagonal (You have 7.07 range when hitting 5 tiles directly diagonal)

Which versions of Ice Yendor (Room 1, 2 or 3) do you find harder? There are tricks with agro range that make room 1 and 2 far easier, but it probably shouldn't be expected for players to figure those out. Room 3 however (with 16 ice giants), is one of the easiest Yendors, it's completely free if you just run down to one corner, and don't agro Yendor.

It is intentional for bows to have lower damage, as they were by far the strongest in RF3. Being able to outrange everything is so powerful. Dex is still considered to be the best attribute by many, SP is just too strong.

Yeah, a way to wield two-handed weapons with a shield would be nice. Also, a bit of a nerf to shield block might be deserved haha.

I completely agree that the game is a blast to play, but there is so much that is broken about the balance xD

Room 3 was always the one I struggled with. I usually try to dash down, as you mentioned, but even with that you end up surrounded by 6 - 8 giants almost immediately. It's not impossible by any stretch, but it does feel like a significant jump in difficulty compared to the rest of the Yendor rooms.

I gotta admit, I've always considered Dex to be weakest of the attributes. The difference in power that strength and intelligence-based builds give you has always outweighed the need for a few speed points, and the highest I upgrade Dex for non-ranger or duelist builds is usually 12 to get access to Strafe Attack. And there's enough SP-giving items laying around that I'll usually end up with 3 or 4 SP regardless. I dunno, maybe it's just a difference in playstyle though, I tend to prefer heavy-hitting builds to movement-based ones.

How do you deal with room 1/2 for Ice Yendor? It took me a while to figure out how to pull most of the ice giants without agroing Yendor there.

For room 3, if you go down and diagonally, near the pillar, you should only fight one group of four. After the first group, it's super easy as you won't be right next to whatever group you fight next. The bits of circle terrain make dealing with Yendor completely free, as you can circle around it forever staying out of vision,  getting cooldowns back, or even dropping Yendor's agro to go grab the goblet in peace. (Circle terrain is OP)

Attributes are far more balanced now than they were in RF3, there is a reasonable case to be made to get every stat with every class. Str feels a little less desirable, but I do find even mages taking it occasionally.

The way I deal with 1/2 is usually killing 1 or 2 of the giants off the bat, at which point I'll be surrounded, use SP to move away, and keep chipping. I don't worry too much about aggroing Ice Yendor, he's actually pretty tame. The main difficulty in 3 is sheer numbers; at some point I'll inevitably find myself in a corner or grabbed. Circling is a good strat though, I'll keep that in mind. It also sounds like you typically use speed-based builds, so maybe this is more a weakness of preferring strenght/intelligence builds than anything else.

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I find the heals from Ice Yendor annoying to kill the giants through, much better to keep them separated if possible.

How much stuff do you usually end up fighting at once in room 3? Rooms 1/2 are 8 giants and Yendor at the same time if you face it head on, room 3 should at most be 8 giants with no Yendor if you move down.

If you can keep room 3 to just one group at a time, I think you'll find it to be easier than rooms 1 and 2 for sure. Blast two of the four giants, and then the other two can be killed with ice knockback regardless of what you have.

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In ice Yendor 3 I pick off the giants in groups of no more than 4. Pretty easy.

In Ice Yendor 1 and 2, I wasn't even aware you can pick off the giants without involving everyone. I've found than an extremely challenging room. Recently killed me again when I was trying to find a use case for the electric spell that spreads to adjacent units.

Which gets back to the original topic: lightning bolt might be extremely strong, but all the other the Air Mage skills feel weak.

For Ice 1, if you get to either of the lower corners, Yendor will not agro. Make sure not to move from the corner until the enemies are 7 tiles away from Yendor. If you do this, it pulls 5 giants (4 + 1 from the other side).

Ice 2 is a little more complicated. The lowest row of the map won't agro Yendor, but it also won't agro any of the ice giants. There are a few options, a scroll of poison fog placed properly will agro a bunch of giants while letting you retreat back safely. The option without any resources only has a 50% chance to work: Move up from the lower wall into vision range of one giant, and hope you get the 50% chance it doesn't shout immediately on seeing you, then SP back to the wall.

Burst of wind is a very versatile spell, however I don't trust it as it is a little unreliable, not working properly with corners. Shroud of wind is amazing, one of the best passives that I always try and pick up with any class. Honestly, you don't need much more than Lightning Bolt 2 to clear the game, it wipes everything up until VoY with no issues. Pick up a few more talents as you like on the way there, and enjoy the win.

Yeah it's not so much a case of Storm Mage being busted as Lightning Bolt itself. It singlehandedly wins the game without much effort, regardless of casting class.