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A really cool and ambitious game! Although I think in some parts the scope might've been too ambitious, since I got stuck a lot, sometimes in places where I couldn't do anything but quit the game, like here and after clearing the poison heart in the red area. Feeling quite lost, I looked at the comments, where you mentioned Fertilization was supposed to be the first ability you obtain, which I missed entirely, getting the Vine Crook and Tether before ever figuring out what the heck those lilypads are for. After that, I made some swift progress, obtaining the climbing and Sprout ability... But then found that the latter didn't do anything? I'm unsure if this is a bug, or if I'm somehow sequence broke again, and I was already supposed to find a projectile earlier in the game, and Sprout only upgrades it but I seem unable to do anything with this ability. So that got me stuck again.

I'll leave more detailed thoughts if I ever figure out how to finish this game, but my overall thoughts is that your foundation is really solid, movement feels great, you got a cool world set up. But while the large scope is impressive, and I think attempting such an open-ended progression with skips is laudable, sadly that also means you have to do a lot of testing to make sure players can't get themselves stuck by following what they think is a natural progression path, which seems like it was hard to fit within the jam's timeframe.

Sprout lets you shoot a projectile that opens doors and activate the lilypad the same way you can with fertilize. It also activates dead plants(inactive mushrooms and vine hook points for example). I know we had an issue where getting Sprout without fertilize didn't let it work as it's supposed to or something like that, and I don't think we were able to update it before the 24 hour extension. Regardless, if you have the time to restart and get Fertilize first, it should absolve any issues, but you should be able to fix the issue with whatever save you're at.  Let us know if you need any tips/hints!

Yeah, I tried pressing the button, but it just didn't work, no projectile is happening. I'll look for Fertilize first and see if that fixes it.

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Hello Neopolis,

Thank you for your comment, it is very valuable to us. I have built the levels. I will clarify some things and also I would love your answer for a couple of questions.

In the version you played, indeed Sprout does not do anything without Pollinate. That was a bug. In case you are curious, this has been corrected post Jam in this new version here: https://eelshep.itch.io/kami-the-great-guardian-post-jam

Now, I explain the usual sequence, or game progression, regarding acquiring the abilities.

- Fertilize and Vine Crook are the two first abilities and they can be obtained in whatever order you wish.

- Then, the third ability is Pollinate.

- Fourth, it is Tether.

- Fifth, it is Climb.

- Sixth, it is Sprout.

Now: there are two sequence breaks that I have designed and included in the level design. One sequence break allows to skip Pollinate. The other allows to skip Climb. The fastest run would be: Fertilize and Vine Crook, Tether, Sprout, finish the game.

Of course, once you use the sequence breaks, you can still acquire those abilities that you skipped, later in the game.


Regarding your image: you are supposed to need mandatorily both Fertilize and Vine Crook to get to the room in your screenshot. You found a sequence break that I did not design and I would love your help to find it out. I think I have found your sequence break: you jumped on this column in my image below, from the left, by only using Vine Crook, right? Please confirm.

I did not intend for this and it will be amended asap. Seriously, thank you very much for flagging this out. You are the only one having found this.


I don't know when we will update the Post Jam version to remove your sequence break. But if you play this version currently and ignore it (meaning that you need both Fertilize and Vine Crook to perfom that jump), you should experience a way smoother non-linear exploration and game progression overall.

Cheers,

Joseph


Hey there, I just completed the game (getting Pollinate before Sprout indeed fixed it), so I can confirm now how I got to the west area early, and it's not through the way you mentioned. Basically, I just went back to the starting area, went left and crooked my way up through the wall like this. Using the crook gives you your jump back, so as long as you can grapple onto something, you can scale heights pretty quickly, I didn't even need Fertilize. There may be other places where you can use the crook to get to places early, it's quite powerful.

From reading the other comments, I read other people having a pretty smooth progression, so it sounds to me like there was an "intended" path that I deviated from pretty hard, causing me to spend quite some time getting lost. This is a bit unfortunate. Like I said, I think the open-ended progression is quite cool, but maybe you should wait a little longer before letting go of the player's leash. Anyway, now that I've completed the game, I feel more qualified to leave my overall thoughts. Aside from the bugs and softlocks I mentioned, there's a few other points of criticism, which I'll now rattle off in no specific order:

For as much focus as there was on combat, I found that it wasn't really the most interesting part of the game. It was fun to slide through places and break hearts, but the enemies really only served their purpose as pogo fodder, they weren't that interesting to actually engage in combat. And I love a good pogo, but it made the enemy challenge rooms not that interesting. I think the game could work with more focus on combat, or less focus, but right now, but right now, it's in kind of an awkward middle spot, where I wish there were more platforming challenges since the platforming is clearly the more developed feature in this build.

The grappling was a little clunky. Grappling onto boxes or unsprouted vines took an annoying amount of precision, especially when they were quite close to you. The crook automatically locking on made it a lot more bearable, although when several grapple points were close together, it was still sometimes a bit unclear.

I really appreciated the inclusion of a fast travel system since the world is quite big, but the fact that it was name only made it a bit cumbersome to use, since I never really knew where it would take me. It'd be nice if it highlighted the fast travel point you selected on the map.

And last of all, while all the pixel art is quite solid, the huge upscaled mixels on the Tree made me a bit sad. Luckily it wasn't very present throughout the rest of the game, but it wasn't a strong first impression of otherwise a very graphically solid game.

That's all my nitpicks, everything is just very well executed! Good movement, nice setting, overall nice progression and thematically cohesive set abilities... I really enjoyed this game, but I think with some more polish and testing cycles (if you want to, of course), it could be truly great. Fantastic job, all of you!

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Hello again,

I really appreciate your effort and explanations. I will answer now for the sequence break only.

I still need to understand something. In fact, your last image is indeed the first sequence break I designed that I described in my previous comment. What you did there is intended by my design. At that point, you are skipping Pollinate to get Tether earlier.

The thing is that you are supposed to need both Fertilize and Vine Crook to get to that room. You don't need Fertilize in that room to perform the sequence break, but you need it before to get to that room. So your sequence break is not that one.

I have just tried all the previous rooms in the map and the only way I see for you to get there without Fertilize is by making the Jump I described. Do you remember your path to arrive to that room in your early game with only Vine Crook?

Best,

Joseph

PS: in our previous game, Meteora, indeed I wait longer before giving the player real possibility of non-linear progression, so I totally get your point.

Edit: and congratulations for finding a designed sequence break! You really try the gameplay and it looks like you play games deeply and get to find their mechanics and tricks

Ah, you're right, my bad, I understand what you mean now. Yes, I think I may have used the grappling hook to make that double jump there without activating the lilypad. I forgot about that part, since I played it a day before leaving my earlier comment.