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(+2)

Thank you for being concerned for Tamarack! Tamarack moved to this town very recently and didn't come from a place in the mountain. She's used to be in a more city/suburban area. So she doesn't dress thinking about what makes sense for going in the woods, she just wears the clothes she has and doesn't think of it as a problem. Her knees get scraped and she puts on bandages, but it doesn't cross her mind to try wearing different pants. That's just how she is at this age, haha.

And yes, there will be more female characters to meet later in the game!

Hahaha. Right. Kids are really innocent and carefree.That's just how they are at these ages. 

My little cousin loves skateboarding. She's always getting bumps and scrapes while learning new tricks, playing with friends, or competing. But she usually just brushes it off and keeps going. If she bleeds a bit, she just wipes it with a tissue. She only asks us for help when she gets a bigger scrape. I'm always told I'm overreacting and being too worried, and yep, I need to chill a bit. 

But I think you team had put some settings like "cold-resistant physique" into Tamarack, haha, as in step3 overview, Tamarack is dressed in a light plaid dress with short sleeves (And maybe there is a perfect "faux bare-leg tights"? I dont know) and a red scarf around her neck, while Qiu's wearing a green jacket with a fluffy collar, a white turtleneck underneath, and dark jeans...

Sorry for talk too much, and thank you for explaining! Your reply makes things clear and clears my confusions. I'm excited to meet the other female characters in the game and see how they bring different perspectives and experiences! Thanks a ton to your team for all the hard work you put into making this game! Looking forward to your further development of OL:N&F.

(-9)

Oh I need to add something, that in my last replies, my haha and etc. are snarky. At that time I was a bit angry and felt ridiculous about some things. 

i just suddenly realized that i dont need to be nor shouldn't be polite when mad. And i might no longer be the audience of your game (or have never been considered as the target audience? i dont know), so i dont need to maintain 'harmony'.

So ATTENTION! The words below may be snarky and directly critical. and i always talk too much...



You mentioned the nature of children. There is some truth in what you said, but I do think that, whether intentionally or unintentionally, you had downplayed the issue. Just face it and dont hide the real problem. 

Even for adult Tamarack, you team chose a plaid short-sleeve dress (that even doesn't reach the knees) for her, which is completely different from Qiu's and many of others (i guess so,  just by things showed in step1). Sorry a bit but i felt ridiculous about this outfit, and the reasons are easy to find in my recent comments. I think, when designing Tamarack, you indeed—whether intentionally or unintentionally—incorporated gender stereotypes. This cannot be excused by citing 'the nature of children' or 'parental negligence'. 

But you team and your games are safe. Cause this is just one of the wrong things that most of people around the world take for granted. And many women wear such outfits 'voluntarily', haha.

And one thing very important, you really did a much better job than some disgusting games like gal games (also known as Bishojo Game). So i should stop here.

Finally, still politely, thanks your efforts and your games provided. Wish you good luck. But Goodbye.

(+17)

"Tamarack can't wear skirts. Because Tamarack is a girl."

You can't be serious

(+7)

I don't understand what your problem is with the way she dresses. There's literally nothing wrong with wearing a skirt/dress that doesn't reach the knees. If it's a child, I guess I could sort of see the concern, but Tamarack is a literal adult at that time, she can do whatever she wants, and that's what she wanted to wear. But I also didn't read your entire rant (because it was seriously so long and - if I'm honest - I didn't feel that the few parts of your argument that I did read was reasonable enough for me to consider reading the rest) so I might have missed something, but anyway:

Your argument for why Tamarack shouldn't be wearing skirts or shorts is that there are diseases and parasites. Have you forgotten that we're talking about a fictional character here? There's no reason to worry about such things. Also, children AND adults in the real world walk around with bare legs out in nature without any issues. I think I've had way over 100 mosquitoes and maybe 50+ ticks on me in my whole life (I'm in my early 20's), and I've never gotten sick from it. We have vaccines for a lot of diseases, and the ones we don't have vaccines for yet are rather rare. To worry about a fictional character in a freaking game getting a disease or parasite is some next level snowflake stuff. You sound like the type of controlling and overly concerned parent that force their kids to wear helmets indoors.

You also mention "incorporating gender stereotypes", which I personally don't see at all. You DO realize that some kids will wear skirts/shorts at all times if possible because that's what they prefer, right? Some kids also don't feel very cold or cold at all (I was one of those kids, so I know what I'm talking about), so that's also a possibility. And lastly, if anything, you're the one incorporating gender stereotypes by trying to decide what a girl should wear.

It sounds like the deeper issue here is that YOU might have experienced some gender stereotypes directed to you or something along those lines, and you're taking that out on the rest of us, which is obviously not fair at all. And if there is no "deeper issue", that's even worse.

And then you said this:

"i just suddenly realized that i dont need to be nor shouldn't be polite when mad. And i might no longer be the audience of your game, so i dont need to maintain 'harmony'"

Believe it or not, that is NOT how the world works. Just because you're not a company's "target audience" does NOT mean you get to be snarky. You should be polite when you're mad, because no one wants to hear out a grown adult throwing a temper tantrum (other than redditors or youtubers wanting to make content). You sound incredibly entitled and honestly bordering on Karen behavior.

Also, later in the thread you admit that you overreacted, but you still keep the comments up, which makes it seem like you don't completely think you overreacted, (because why else would you keep them up? people who realize they overreacted will usually feel embarrassed or ashamed afterwards and will more often than not delete the comments). 

You also point out yourself that you "always talk too much" and have on multiple occasions been told by other people that you're overreacting and being too worried, and then you also say that you "need to chill". So let me get this straight: You are aware of this issue of yours, yet you STILL keep doing it?  You notice a personal flaw and do nothing to stop it. You're actively avoiding trying to become a better person, and you have the gall to criticize these game devs that are really doing everything to make their games more inclusive for everyone?

Not to mention, what you're criticizing them for is creating a girl character who herself chooses what to wear.

(1 edit) (-1)

这是我的最后一次回复,以母语(mother tongue)+机器翻译(machine translation)的形式出现:

If you think what I said was too long to read, just focus on what i highlight here (used ''heading'').

我为了传达清楚想法作了引用或举例,所以会很长:) 你批评我自大和错误时,难道不也隐含着一种对自身认知的自信和自大吗?

I used quotes or examples to convey my ideas clearly, so it will be very long:) When you criticize me for being arrogant and wrong, doesn't it also imply a confidence and arrogance in your own cognition?

当我尽量压住脾气、以低姿态委婉地指出问题时,你们就已经觉得我不够积极,并且暗含了对我的谴责。所以,在我不再纠结、重新表明态度后,你们没必要装出一副“深明大义”、“积极”和“包容”的样子,并指责我是个无法真正认识错误的自大之人。

When I tried to suppress my temper and pointed out the problem in a subtle and humble way, you already thought I wasn't being proactive enough and implicitly blamed me. So, after I stopped being conflicted and restated my position, there's no need for you to pretend to be "righteous," "proactive," and "tolerant," while accusing me of being an arrogant person who cannot truly recognize mistakes.


事实上,我从不觉得自己的反应过度。

In fact, I never thought my reaction was excessive. 

我在前期表现得委婉,只是因为当时我没有明确地意识到“反季穿搭”触及了我的底线,而且我一直在纠结“是否应该对‘不完美’表现得苛刻”。同时,我以为,如果语气委婉一些、把自己的姿态放低一些,能让人更容易接受我的意见。可能是因为我的姿态太低、语言太委婉了,或者是因为我没能很好地压抑情绪、还未掌握“语言的艺术”,所以整体效果很差,显得矛盾和古怪,非常可惜。

I was subtle in the beginning simply because I hadn't fully realized that "off-season dressing" had crossed my bottom line, and I was conflicted about whether I should be harsh on "imperfection." At the same time, I believed that if my tone was more gentle and I lowered my stance, it would be easier for people to accept my opinion. Perhaps it was because my stance was too low, my language too subtle, or because I hadn't yet mastered the "art of language" and failed to suppress my emotions well, resulting in a poor overall effect that appeared contradictory and strange—how unfortunate.

随着对话的进行,我已经明白了那些我没问出来的问题的答案。我意识到,这个游戏还达不到我心中的“不完美”线,但我并不会大肆批评和抵制它,因为它还没有差劲到触及我的“责骂抵制”线。

As the conversation progressed, I realized the answers to the questions I hadn't asked. I recognized that this game doesn't quite reach the level of "imperfection" in my mind, but I won't heavily criticize or boycott it because it hasn't yet reached the level that would trigger my "condemn and resist" line.

近年来,我们的互联网上一直有很多关于女权主义的讨论,尤其是在所谓的“穿衣自由”、“创作自由”和“娱乐自由”上。

In recent years, there have been many discussions about feminism on our internet, especially regarding so-called "freedom of dress," "freedom of creation," and "freedom of entertainment."

首先,别偷换概念或误解我的评论。事实上,我并不是在批评她穿裙子(至少我的评论里没有),我批评的是这种不实用、反自然季节、反人类天性(保暖与舒适)的穿着方式。

First of all, don't twist the concept or misinterpret my comments. In fact, I am not criticizing her for wearing a skirt (at least not in my comments); I am criticizing the impractical, off-season, and anti-human nature (warmth and comfort) of such dressing styles.

接着,聊聊所谓的“穿衣自由”,我们这边经常叫它“服美役”(Beauty Duty)。如果在秋冬季节里穿着“美观”但不保暖的反季节衣服是一种自由和时尚,那为什么我没看到Step 1的boys' club穿不及膝的短裤和长袜?为什么在Step 3中Qiu没有穿短袖和不及膝的短裤,或者穿和Tamarack一样的裙子? 

Next, let's talk about the so-called "freedom of dress," which we often call "Beauty Duty." If wearing "beautiful" but un-warm off-season clothes in autumn and winter is a form of freedom and fashion, then why haven't I seen the boys' club in Step 1 wearing shorts and knee-high socks? Why didn't Qiu wear short sleeves and knee-length shorts, or wear a skirt like Tamarack in Step 3? 


说到底,就如我们常引用的福柯的一部分观点:“如果我完全没有强迫你,并让你处于完全自由的状态,你却依然选择了我为你预设的道路,那就是我开始运用权力之时。”

In the end, as we often quote from Foucault: "If I haven't forced you at all and let you be in a completely free state, yet you still choose the path I preset for you, that's when I start exercising power." 

还有《始于极限》中的观点:“主体越坚持选择自由,结构越被免责。” 你们所谓的“自由”,名为自由,实为“美丽”枷锁和“魅力”枷锁。

And the view from "Started at the Limit": "The more the subject insists on choosing freedom, the more the structure is absolved." Your so-called "freedom" is in name freedom, but in reality, it's a shackle of "beauty" and "charm."

另外吐槽一下,女性穿上裤子是女性前辈们经过斗争、付出了一定牺牲才争取来的,而“女性穿裤子被广泛接受”距今还不到一百年,这让我对你所谓的“穿裙子自由”感到好笑。女性什么时候缺过“穿裙子自由”?从小到大,女性基本上被教导或被社会潜移默化地认为“女性该穿(美美的)裙子”。哪怕是年岁增长,女性的正装主流也是礼裙,女性缺过裙子自由吗?别再将女性穿反季裙子称为“自由”,并以此来攻击我蔑视她人的“自由”了。荒谬至极,你和我活在同一个时代、同一个地球上吗?社会什么时候有过“阻止女性穿反季裙子”的氛围?明明几乎都是在明里暗里鼓励这种行为。

Also, let me vent a bit: Women wearing pants is something that earlier generations of women fought for, and it hasn't even been a hundred years since "women wearing pants was widely accepted." This makes your so-called "freedom to wear skirts" laughable. When have women ever lacked the "freedom to wear skirts"? From childhood to adulthood, women have basically been taught or subtly influenced by society to think that "women should wear (beautiful) skirts." Even as they age, the mainstream formal wear for women is still dresses. Have women ever lacked skirt freedom? Stop calling women wearing off-season skirts a "freedom," and use it to attack me for despising others' "freedom." It's utterly absurd—do you and I live in the same era, on the same planet? When has society ever had an atmosphere of "preventing women from wearing off-season skirts"? Clearly, such behavior is almost always encouraged, both openly and subtly. 


而且我只是指出了不合理、说出了自己的想法,为一个“纸片人”(实际上,“她”的一切基本都由创作者决定)鸣不平,而你却跑出来说我干预或不尊重她的“穿衣自由”……打个比方吧,这就像我在批评血汗工厂制度的不合理和它对工人的剥削、希望工厂老板改正时,你却冒出来说我干预或不尊重那些工人的“超额工作自由”,你说好不好笑吧。

Moreover, I was merely pointing out the irrationality and expressing my thoughts, standing up for a "paper person" (in reality, "her" entire existence is basically decided by the creator), and yet you jump out to say I'm interfering with or disrespecting her "freedom of dress"… To give an analogy, it's like when I criticize the unfairness of sweatshop labor and its exploitation of workers, hoping the factory owner would correct it, and you pop out saying I'm interfering with or disrespecting those workers' "freedom to work overtime." Isn't that just ridiculous?

关于“创作自由”和“娱乐自由”,人们常说,人会被作品本身会反映创作者在一些问题上的立场和认识,创作者需要对他们的作品受众负一定的责任。

Regarding "freedom of creation" and "freedom of entertainment," it is often said that people are influenced by the stance and understanding of the creator on certain issues reflected in the work, and creators need to take some responsibility for their audience.


而戴锦华女士曾经说过:“你消费着这样的文化,你觉得它不过是给你提供快乐。但是,在不知不觉当中构造了你的情感方式,构造了你的价值观念,构造了你的价值观念,构造了你的生活方式,构造了你的向往、你的恐惧和你的需求的,正是那些你轻松地去消遣的东西......”。

 Professor Dai Jinhua once said: "You consume this kind of culture, thinking it's just providing you with pleasure. However, unknowingly, it constructs your emotional ways, constructs your values, constructs your lifestyle, and constructs your aspirations, your fears, and your needs, precisely those things that you lightly consume for entertainment..." 


任何作品中的“自由”,如果不在正确的尺度里,最终都会成为伤害、束缚现实中的人的凶器。这一点,是创作者和消费者都需要注意的。

Any "freedom" in a work, if not within the correct bounds, will ultimately become a weapon that harms and shackles people in reality. This is something that both creators and consumers need to pay attention to.

(+3)

no one is forcing you to play the game?? whether you stop supporting gbpatch or not, theres a bunch of other people who will