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irefrixs16 days ago (1 edit)

Hi @Average4PlayersGame,

Thank you for your response.

I believe the point we are discussing is when “09015” should trigger “after you play this card.”

There are two timings for this card:

  1. After your hero defends against an attack.
  2. After you take no damage from that attack.

In the current engine, when you play “09015,” it only remains on the table (processing area) to add DEF to your hero, and then it is discarded shortly thereafter.

That’s because we treat the effect “If you take no damage from that attack, ready your hero” as a “DELAYED EFFECT.” While your explanation of the card playing process is accurate, this specific part is not considered part of that process.

If you have any thoughts, feel free to reply.

DELAYED EFFECT

Some abilities contain delayed effects. Such abilities specify a future timing point, or indicate a future condition that may arise, and dictate an effect that is to happen at that time.

When a delayed effect resolves, it is not treated as a new triggered ability, even if the delayed effect was originally created by a triggered ability.

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Average4PlayersGame16 days ago (1 edit)

Based on the Delayed Effect you've provided, I've found it differently on RRG 1.6 page 15

 DELAYED EFFECT
Some abilities contain delayed effects. Such abilities specify a future timing point, or indicate a future condition that may arise, and dictate an effect that is to happen at that time.
 • • Delayed effects resolve automatically and immediately after their specified timing point or future condition occurs or becomes true, and before responses to that point or condition may be used. Delayed effects have the same timing priority as constant effects. 
• • When a delayed effect resolves, it is not treated as a new triggered ability, even if the delayed effect was originally created by a triggered ability

It clearly states that "Before responses to that point or condition maybe used" and "26016" is a Hero Response.

Hope this clarifies my point.

Thanks for your awesome update and the game!

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irefrixs15 days ago

Hi @Average4PlayersGame,

What I mean is:

  1. The phrase “After you play card ‘09015’” should trigger after your hero defends against an attack.
  2. The description “After you take no damage from that attack” is a “DELAYED EFFECT” and is not included in the card playing process.

Therefore, “26016” should only trigger after “After you play card ‘09015’” rather than “After you take no damage from that attack.”

If you have any thoughts, feel free to reply.

Reply
Average4PlayersGame1 day ago

Sorry for late response.

I got caught up in work.

But here's the FFG answer about Flow Like Water (26016) and Desperate Defense (09015)

Thank you for your interest in Marvel Champions: The Card Game. 
---------- ---------- --------- --------- ---------
 
Flow Like Water triggers when you resolve the ability of a Defense-traited card. Say you have it in play when you make a basic defense, allowing you to play Desperate Defense. You’d resolve Desperate Defense by giving your hero +2 DEF, creating a delayed effect, and discarding it; that’s the point at which you’d trigger Flow Like Water and deal 1 damage to the minion, defeating it. The minion is still considered to have attacked, and you have still defended and taken no damage, so you will ready your hero.
 
---------- ---------- --------- --------- ---------
Feel free to reach out to us if any more questions arise!
 
Sincerely,
Alex Werner, FFG Game Rules Specialist
Rules questions and their answers are reviewed by both the Marvel Champions: The Card Game design team and the Game Rules Specialist.

So, your point stands correct, but now 09015 is considered bug from this FFG reply.

In 0.5.8.166 version, when an enemy is defeated from 26016, 09015 does not ready the hero.

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irefrixs23 hours ago(+1)

Hi @Average4PlayersGame,

Thanks for following up with FFG and sharing their response. I appreciate you taking the time to clarify the rules for “26016” (Flow Like Water) and “09015” (Desperate Defense).

It’s good to know that FFG confirms the interaction between these two cards, and I agree that this means the current behavior of “09015” not readying the hero when an enemy is defeated by “26016” is a bug. This bug is also been confirmed to occur in version 0.5.8.199.

I’ll make sure to get this fixed, thanks again for your efforts in getting an official ruling from FFG.

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