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Marvel Champions: Digital Edition

Marvel Champions LCG · By irefrixs

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Marvel Champions: Digital Edition community

Bug I've found so far in 0.5.8.166

A topic by Average4PlayersGame created 20 days ago Views: 194 Replies: 13
Viewing posts 1 to 4
Average4PlayersGame20 days ago (2 edits)

This post will be update further if I found any more bugs. 

Card ID: Captain America (Leadership) (21011)

Expected vs. Actual Results: The card counts non-character AVENGERS card when determine the cost. (eg. When you have 2 allies with AVENGERS traits and Quincarrier(08023) it counts Quincarrier as AVENGERS card and reduce Captain America cost.)

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Card ID: Southern Cross (38006)

Expected vs. Actual Results: When Rogue attach Touched (38002) to the villain and gain Retaliate, Southern Cross does not stun the enemy.

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Card ID: Shadowcat's cards (Solid/Phased mass form (32031a/32031b), Phase Strike (32038), Telepathic Restraint (32059), Quick Shift (32040))

Expected vs. Actual Results: Her cards are bugged in lots of way.

1.  Playing DEFENSE-labeled card without exhausting Shadowcat, sometimes, doesn't flip Phased form as it should be.

this is the list of cards I've found so far:

          - Defiance (26018)

          - Powerful Punch (32014)

          - Preemptive Strike (05014)

          - Quick Shift (32040)

2. Phase Strike (32038) should discard the villain's attachment before it triggers Retaliate, since the attack should resolve fully before Retaliate triggers (test with Klaw).

3. Solid mass form (32031a) is not exhausted when used.

4. Using Quick Shift (32040) while Shadowcat is in Solid form, sometimes, flip the form twice immediately when using it against minion (first occur when I used it against Melter (01132)) Resulted in Shadowcat taking damage as it shouldn't. This is the video I've successfully reproduced to bug: 

The sequence should be:

          1. Shadowcat plays Quick Shift while in Solid

          2. Solid flip to Phased

          3. Enemy attacks and deals no damage to Shadowcat, since she's in Phased form and she is defending against an attack (using Quick Shift as a DEFENSE-labeled card.)

          4. After the attack resolves, the Phased form flip back to Solid (Forced Response).

          5. Trigger others Hero Response Hard to Ignore(16017), Unfalppable(09020) etc.

5. Using Quick Shift (32040) while Shadowcat is in Phased form, also sometimes, immediately flip to Solid form. Resulted in Shadowcat taking damage as it shouldn't (refer to the sequence above).

6. Telepathic Restraint(32059) (Shadowcat's Nemesis card) is not working properly. (It gives CONFUSED instead of STUNNED)

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Card ID: Flow Like Water (26016)

Expected vs. Actual Results: Flow Like Water should trigger after the defense is fully resolved.  Since, the DEFENSE card  is resolving continuously along with attacking. The DEFENSE card is considered to be played after it fully resolves, not after paying the cost.

If this is not the correct way, it invokes a lot of trouble. First, Desperate Defense(09015) is now bugged because of Flow Like Water. When an enemy attacks and you play Desperate Defense, it immediately deals damage to that enemy. If it is a 1 HP minion, it is defeated. Resulted in no attacks were made and Desperate Defense whiffs because you are now not defending anymore. It shouldn't resolve like this at all. It should be:

          1. Declare defend

          2. Play DEFENSE cards.

          3. Enemy attack resolves.

          4. Resolve after attack of those DEFENSE cards (ready for DD, STUNNED for Never Back Down(14014) etc.)

          5. DEFENSE cards are now considered done, which trigger Flow Like Water.

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Card ID: Defiance (26018)

Expected vs. Actual Results: When play Defiance (26018) against the villain attack, Flow Like Water(26016) does not trigger.

I will be updating this more after I've played more.

Reply
irefrixsDeveloper20 days ago(+1)

Hi @Average4PlayersGame,

Thank you for your detailed bug report. We appreciate your efforts in identifying these issues.

  1. Bug “21011”: Fixed.
  2. Bug “38006”: Fixed.
  3. Shadowcat’s Cards:
    1. Bug “32031a/32031b”: Fixed.
    2. Bug “32038”: We will discuss this later.
    3. Bug “32031a”: Fixed.
    4. Bug “32040”: Fixed.
    5. Bug “32040”: Fixed.
    6. Bug “32059”: Fixed.
  4. Bug “26016”: We will discuss this later.
  5. Bug “26018”: Fixed.

We kindly recommend reporting bugs individually in separate posts, as this makes it easier for us to address each issue effectively. Additionally, please refrain from editing your original post to add new bugs, as we do not receive notifications for updates.

Thank you for your understanding, and we look forward to your continued feedback!

Reply
Average4PlayersGame19 days ago

What I mean when I say I'll update is I'll reply to this post when I've found more bugs. But if you want me to create new post then I'll do it. Thanks for your hard working!

Reply
irefrixsDeveloper18 days ago

Hi @Average4PlayersGame,

Let’s talk about the card “32038”.

Our current understanding is that the effects of dealing damage and discarding the villain’s attachment resolve sequentially. This means that the attachment is discarded only after the damage has been fully resolved, which would result in you taking the retaliate damage when you deal damage to the villain.

However, we want to ensure that this behavior is correct. If you have any references from the FAQ or additional insights on this situation, please share them with us. Your input is greatly appreciated!

Reply
Average4PlayersGame16 days ago (1 edit)

For "32038", I believe these sentences would clear things up,

RRG 1.6 page 4 under "Ability" section:

When an ability has more than one sentence of text, read the entirety of the ability to check for alteration effects that may change the way the ability resolves. Then, resolve the ability one sentence at a time.

RRG 1.6 page 9 under "Attack (Player Ability Type)"

The order of resolution for abilities triggered by the resolution of an attack is as follows:
1. The retaliate X keyword (if the attacked character was not defeated).
2. Forced abilities with the following triggers (in any order):
      » » “after [character] attacks [and damages/defeats] [an enemy/a minion]...”
      » » “after [character] is attacked...”
3. Non-forced abilities with the triggers listed above.
4. Consequential damage (for allies).

and

If a triggered ability is labeled as an attack—such as “Hero Action (attack)”—resolving that ability is considered to attack the specified target. Unless specified by the ability’s text, a hero does not exhaust when using such an ability.

These rules imply that, ability on cards that contain (attack) should be fully resolved before Retaliate kicks in.

If this is not clear enough, RRG 1.6 page 9 under "Attack (Enemy Activation)"

The attack finishes resolving and the following types of abilities trigger in order:
a. The retaliate X keyword (if the attacked character was not defeated).
b. Forced abilities with the following triggers (in any order):
      » » “after [character] attacks [and damages/defeats] [you/an ally]...”
      » » “after [character] is attacked...”
      » » “after [character] defends [and takes no damage]...”
c. Non-forced abilities with the triggers listed above.

This clearly states that Retaliate should have trigger after the attack is fully resolved.

Hope this clear up my point.

Reply
irefrixsDeveloper15 days ago

Hi @Average4PlayersGame,

Thank you for your insights. If I understand correctly, you mentioned that if a card is labeled ‘attack’, all statements on that card should be treated as part of that attack.

However, we found another card, “37014”, with similar statements:

Deal 4 damage to an enemy. If that enemy is defeated by this attack, remove 2 threat from a scheme.

We believe that the “If XXX, remove 2 threat from a scheme” part should not be considered part of the attack itself; rather, it should be treated as a “DELAYED EFFECT”.

Similarly, card “32038” states:

Deal 6 damage to an enemy. If you are in Phased mass form, you may discard an attachment with the text “Hero Action” or “Hero Response” from that enemy.

In this case, we propose that the “If you XXX, you may XXX” part can also be regarded as a “DELAYED EFFECT”.

To ensure we are interpreting this correctly, could you please provide any references from the FAQ or additional insights on this matter? Your input would be greatly appreciated!

Reply
Average4PlayersGame15 days ago (1 edit)

I've looked into the Delay Effect in RRG 1.6 page 15. It states

 Some abilities contain delayed effects. Such abilities specify a future timing point, or indicate a future condition that may arise, and dictate an effect that is to happen at that time.
 • • Delayed effects resolve automatically and immediately after their specified timing point or future condition occurs or becomes true, and before responses to that point or condition may be used. Delayed effects have the same timing priority as constant effects. 
• • When a delayed effect resolves, it is not treated as a new triggered ability, even if the delayed effect was originally created by a triggered ability.

This leads me to believe that Delayed Effect still, in fact, triggers before Retaliate. Even if it triggers as a constant effect, player should be able to pick the sequence as it triggers in the same timing windows.

RRG 1.6 page 5 under "Ability"

 Simultaneous Timing Priority — Some abilities have timing priority over other abilities. In order, the timing priority of abilities with the same triggering condition is: 
1. Constant abilities, delayed effects, lasting effects, keywords, and icons. 
2. Status cards. 
3. “Forced Interrupt” abilities. 
4. “Interrupt” abilities. 
5. “Boost,” “When Defeated,” and “When Revealed” abilities.
 6. “Forced Response” abilities. 
7. “Response” abilities. 
8. Consequential damage.

Keep up the work, you're doing really great job!

Reply
irefrixsDeveloper18 days ago

Hi @Average4PlayersGame,

Let’s talk about the card “26016”.

Our current understanding of the card’s design is that it triggers “after you play a Defense card,” rather than “after your hero defends.” This means that the action of playing a card is considered to occur before the defense itself.

Additionally, we cannot trigger “after you play a Defense card” after the attack has fully resolved, as our engine does not cache which cards are triggered during that attack. Implementing a change to accommodate this could potentially introduce further complications.

We appreciate your insights and understand the concerns you’ve raised. If you have any additional references or suggestions, please feel free to share them with us.

Reply
Average4PlayersGame16 days ago

For "26016", I have sent an email to FFG but have no luck on the reply yet.

However, your point seems fair enough, but one thing I should say is that

in RRG 1.6 page 30 under "Play, Put into Play"

When an event card is played, place it on the table, resolve its ability, and place the card in its owner’s discard pile.

This sentence implies that playing an event card involves:

1. place the card on the table

2. resolve its ability.

3. put it in the discard.

This mean Flow Like Water (26016) should actually trigger after Desperate Defense (09015) have resolved completely (which included readying the hero). 

Hope this also clarifies my point.

Thanks for your hard working.

Reply
irefrixsDeveloper15 days ago (1 edit)

Hi @Average4PlayersGame,

Thank you for your response.

I believe the point we are discussing is when “09015” should trigger “after you play this card.”

There are two timings for this card:

  1. After your hero defends against an attack.
  2. After you take no damage from that attack.

In the current engine, when you play “09015,” it only remains on the table (processing area) to add DEF to your hero, and then it is discarded shortly thereafter.

That’s because we treat the effect “If you take no damage from that attack, ready your hero” as a “DELAYED EFFECT.” While your explanation of the card playing process is accurate, this specific part is not considered part of that process.

If you have any thoughts, feel free to reply.

DELAYED EFFECT

Some abilities contain delayed effects. Such abilities specify a future timing point, or indicate a future condition that may arise, and dictate an effect that is to happen at that time.

When a delayed effect resolves, it is not treated as a new triggered ability, even if the delayed effect was originally created by a triggered ability.

Reply
Average4PlayersGame15 days ago (1 edit)

Based on the Delayed Effect you've provided, I've found it differently on RRG 1.6 page 15

 DELAYED EFFECT
Some abilities contain delayed effects. Such abilities specify a future timing point, or indicate a future condition that may arise, and dictate an effect that is to happen at that time.
 • • Delayed effects resolve automatically and immediately after their specified timing point or future condition occurs or becomes true, and before responses to that point or condition may be used. Delayed effects have the same timing priority as constant effects. 
• • When a delayed effect resolves, it is not treated as a new triggered ability, even if the delayed effect was originally created by a triggered ability

It clearly states that "Before responses to that point or condition maybe used" and "26016" is a Hero Response.

Hope this clarifies my point.

Thanks for your awesome update and the game!

Reply
irefrixsDeveloper15 days ago

Hi @Average4PlayersGame,

What I mean is:

  1. The phrase “After you play card ‘09015’” should trigger after your hero defends against an attack.
  2. The description “After you take no damage from that attack” is a “DELAYED EFFECT” and is not included in the card playing process.

Therefore, “26016” should only trigger after “After you play card ‘09015’” rather than “After you take no damage from that attack.”

If you have any thoughts, feel free to reply.

Reply
Average4PlayersGame21 hours ago

Sorry for late response.

I got caught up in work.

But here's the FFG answer about Flow Like Water (26016) and Desperate Defense (09015)

Thank you for your interest in Marvel Champions: The Card Game. 
---------- ---------- --------- --------- ---------
 
Flow Like Water triggers when you resolve the ability of a Defense-traited card. Say you have it in play when you make a basic defense, allowing you to play Desperate Defense. You’d resolve Desperate Defense by giving your hero +2 DEF, creating a delayed effect, and discarding it; that’s the point at which you’d trigger Flow Like Water and deal 1 damage to the minion, defeating it. The minion is still considered to have attacked, and you have still defended and taken no damage, so you will ready your hero.
 
---------- ---------- --------- --------- ---------
Feel free to reach out to us if any more questions arise!
 
Sincerely,
Alex Werner, FFG Game Rules Specialist
Rules questions and their answers are reviewed by both the Marvel Champions: The Card Game design team and the Game Rules Specialist.

So, your point stands correct, but now 09015 is considered bug from this FFG reply.

In 0.5.8.166 version, when an enemy is defeated from 26016, 09015 does not ready the hero.

Reply
irefrixsDeveloper18 hours ago(+1)

Hi @Average4PlayersGame,

Thanks for following up with FFG and sharing their response. I appreciate you taking the time to clarify the rules for “26016” (Flow Like Water) and “09015” (Desperate Defense).

It’s good to know that FFG confirms the interaction between these two cards, and I agree that this means the current behavior of “09015” not readying the hero when an enemy is defeated by “26016” is a bug. This bug is also been confirmed to occur in version 0.5.8.199.

I’ll make sure to get this fixed, thanks again for your efforts in getting an official ruling from FFG.

Reply
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