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Midnight Spire Games3 years ago(+3)

Honestly, letting anyone self-publish is really the whole point of this platform.  That has pros and cons, but it's the reason this site exists.  It's true that it's hard to stand out in a field of almost 400,000 titles, but the problem is that there's no objective way to apply the quality filters you want.  We already have the "featured" and "fresh" sections to showcase subjectively curated content - if you only want to view what the site operators think is the best content, those are the places to look.  

I don't think having another level of curation for supposedly undesirable or "joke" projects would be beneficial.  If some anonymous curator took something I had worked hard on and threw it in the trash pile where no one will ever see it, I would be pissed.  Why would I continue publishing here after seeing my work treated that way?

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FreshToucan3 years ago
If some anonymous curator took something I had worked hard on and threw it in the trash pile where no one will ever see it, I would be pissed.

That's my whole point. You said "worked hard on". My point is some of the stuff posted on here are literally someone posting a YouTube tutorial they followed for an hour. Sometimes it's only PONG or another classic well known game they do not own, sometimes it's not even a game ffs. Some people use Intellectual Property they don't own and post it on here. Some people completely rip-off an existing game and post it on here. This pushes quality content downwards in the fresh sections and reduces their visibility. 

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Midnight Spire Games3 years ago(+1)
That's my whole point. You said "worked hard on". 

Right, but we're talking about curation.  It doesn't matter what I think of my work; someone at Itch decides whether it counts as a "serious" project that deserves to be in the main listings.  What counts as a serious work?  Does it have to be on par with Shovel Knight, or is an ugly platformer with one level and no music OK?  What if it has five levels?  That's my concern - I don't want to have to worry about meeting some unknown quality standard or risk being delisted.  As it is, everyone publishes on the same footing, and the staff picks out the things they want to highlight.

If you can think of some clear and concrete standards to support your suggestion, though, I would be interested in hearing them.  Copyright infringement is already against the rules, so those instances of course need to be reported and removed.  I'm not worried about those.

My point is some of the stuff posted on here are literally someone posting a YouTube tutorial they followed for an hour. Sometimes it's only PONG or another classic well known game they do not own, sometimes it's not even a game ffs.

Is that really such a problem, though?  Yes, a lot of things posted here are learning experiences, prototypes, clones made for game jams, and so on.  That can be a little frustrating as a user when you're looking for something specific, but the site is here for people to showcase their work, after all.  I don't think it's fair to kick projects down to a less visible tier for such subjective reasons.

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evilsn3 years ago

IMO, the way I see it, FreshToucan is basically just screaming out that he wants to see privilege, elitism and censorship exercised with a vengeance on this website. Having been around on this community for 4+ years, I can happily report that I feel safe with the way Itch.io is being run right now - that being, not encouraging privilege abuse, elitism and censorship - and that I wish the mods, admin and tech staff keep things the way they are. Status quo isn't always a bad thing. Constant improvement sometimes leads to poisonous outcomes.

PS - that's my own opinion, go get your own. I am not trying to denounce or be condescending towards anyone, here. I can be paranoid at times, and threads like these make me very paranoid.

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FreshToucan3 years ago

That's not my point at all. All I'm saying is that troll projects, memes, low effort rip-offs should be in their own categories. Games that use Intellectual Property that they do not own either in-game or in their title as click-bait shouldn't be tolerated as well.

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evilsn3 years ago(+1)

Give people room to breathe, man. What you're suggesting is the very essence of censorship. Troll projects, low effort parodies and experimental games are how people are able to express themselves. Take away people's ability to vent their life angst in a video game and you get January 6th going all over again. I don't want to be advocating terrorism or sedition but that's the truth man. Those who make civil discourse illegal make armed rebellion inevitable.

I'm not saying every game maker has a gun (or a pitchfork) or wants to use it (or if they don't, wants to get one), but when you enforce censorship, you make society as a whole, unstable. How do you think the USSR never had a chance to beat the USA in the Cold War? It wasn't due to capitalism being the stronger ideology (that's actually BS because socialism is actually the stronger ideology), but because the USSR censored its people's personal expression so heavily that the really bad stuff went underground, and then when Gorbachev uncensored it with pere-whatever it's called-stroika or something, the torrent of anger and rage came to the forefront, breaking their society into divisive pieces, and leading to the collapse of the Soviet Union, and the subsequent rise of Putin. Censorship is never a good thing.

Categorizing projects based on worth, is censorship. Who determines said worth anyway, and what moral standing do they have to do so? Are we going to have a proper works commission decide who gets to be classified as serious work and who gets to be shat out the seventh story window with the baby and the bathwater? This is all just so inherently immoral.

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FreshToucan3 years ago
Categorizing projects based on worth, is censorship.

I said categorize projects on what they are. How is that censorship?

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Outfrost3 years ago

You propose this under the assumption that everyone shares the same idea of what is a serious game project and what is a tutorial showoff, an unworthy prototype, a low-effort clone, a meme, a shitpost. That assumption is wrong.

Take the one game you've released on itch as an example. Out there, around the world, there are people who will call your game a serious project, people who will call it a prototype unworthy of any attention, and people who will call it a shitpost, in more equal proportions than you might think. And none of them can be proven wrong.

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FreshToucan3 years ago
If you can think of some clear and concrete standards to support your suggestion, though, I would be interested in hearing them.

The goal would be to separate content in a better way. Make a Meme game? Post it in the meme/joke section. Your first unity rolla-ball tutorial project? Post it in a showoff section. You want to make the thousandth among us clone with no twist or unique take? Don't post it in the new multiplayer games. Post it in your personal projects or show off section. You actually made a quality original game? Go ahead and post it in the category that describes your game the most and enjoy being in the fresh new games with other quality original games. That's what I mean by curating.

Does it have to be on par with Shovel Knight, or is an ugly platformer with one level and no music OK?

The ugly plat-former with no sound should be in your personal projects or a showoff section. Not with shovel knight or with other polished games. (By other polished games, I don't mean only well known ones)

My point is, prototypes should be with prototypes, fully polished games should be with fully polished games, memes should be with memes, low quality or beginner projects should be with beginner projects. Is that any clearer?

If I make a meme game , this game should not be tagged with anything other than meme. It shouldn't be with polished action games or polished multiplayer games or serious game prototypes.

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