Because... many people in the community claim to be tolerant, reasonable, and open to new ideas and counterpoints, but their actions tell a different story.
There's a narrative that relies on the current status quo (which relies on irrelevant humor and meaningless sarcasm), and if anyone challenges it for an honest reason, no matter how valid it is...
Sure, I'll break it down for you. If you show up and give someone else's opinion (i.e. this product) a bad review, you can't be surprised when other people show up and give your opinion a bad review (downvotes).
Instead, you're saying the downvotes on your comment are a sign that "their actions tell a different story" than the values they claim to believe in - i.e., that it's hypocritical of them to downvote you.
It's not, though. They just don't agree with what you have to say. Their opinion about your comment is 100% as valid as your opinion about this product. If you claim that's not the case, which you did, that's hypocritical.
TL;DR: If you show up to throw shade, you're probably going to get shade thrown at you in return, and you have nothing and no one to blame but your own choice to throw shade.
'Sure, I'll break it down for you. If you show up and give someone else's opinion (i.e. this product) a bad review, you can't be surprised when other people show up and give your opinion a bad review (downvotes).'
I'm not sure I understand. You're saying that a bad review is the same as a downvote?
'Instead, you're saying the downvotes on your comment are a sign that "their actions tell a different story" than the values they claim to believe in - i.e., that it's hypocritical of them to downvote you.'
You misunderstand. At the time, I wasn't saying that downvotes were a sign of contradictory values. I said it because there are a lot of people in the Undertale community who sincerely believe it is funny and admirable to mock and sneer and guilt-trip people just for liking violent video games, and these people also have a tendency to try and deny the reality of the discourse regarding the excuse of irony becasue they're afraid to be honest about things, even to this day. Hence, the irony lover's tendency to hide behind wit, sarcasm, puns and memes. Which comes across as very dull and uninspired after a while.
'It's not, though. They just don't agree with what you have to say. Their opinion about your comment is 100% as valid as your opinion about this product. If you claim that's not the case, which you did, that's hypocritical.'
Yes, that's correct, people's opinions about my comment is 100% as valid about my concerns about Undertale and various related works. I have never claimed that that's not the case. What gave you that impression? I've always been concerned with unnecessary toxic fandom guilt-tripping over a simple collection of downvotes.
'TL;DR: If you show up to throw shade, you're probably going to get shade thrown at you in return, and you have nothing and no one to blame but your own choice to throw shade.'
Your concerns are valid and I feel the need to answer them honestly. But... there is a difference between throwing shade, pointing out that there are a lot of questionable people in the community who love to shit on people for liking violent video games, and... playing along with the constant guilt-tripping because it's too much trouble to be honest about things. I identify as part of the second camp, while I've had many bad experiences with many Undertale fans who place themselves in the third camp through repeated words and actions and unnecessary rage and anger and hatred and spite. I don't understand why someone would simply dismiss an honest concern as simply 'throwing shade.' People should know to be better than that by now.
If you've had bad experiences with jerks who use art as an excuse to insult what people like, that sucks and I'm sorry you have.
What does that have to do with this product, though? This is one creator's take. That creator hasn't done anything to you, and what they created isn't insulting toward people who like violent video games. Why would you take your thoughts toward those other jerks out on this creator?
Thank you for understanding the concern in a way that many people actively choose not to. It's a very rare thing to come across these days.
But that's precisely why there is a connection between this product, similar products, and a large amount of fandom discourse where so many irony loving people claim to be saying something profound and original when they're just clinging to overused trends and cliches even more than the normal, mainstream consumers that they love to mock and sneer at and guilt-trip just to satisfy their own boredom and disillusionment with humanity's infinite capacity for sin and nothing else.
I have no interest in taking thoughts toward this particular creator, specifically.
I left the comments from before because I truly feel that it is important to fight against the grain and keep pushing for more honest discourse because very few people have the will and patience to do so because it's so easy to choose a life of sass over honesty and earnest will, even though a mentality of hostile words doesn't earn anyone's respect in the long run.
One or two isolated situations with the excuses of 'morbid curiosity' and 'perverted sentimentality' and 'the bittersweet poison of nostalgia' can be viewed as isolated incidents, but not when these terms and phrases keep showing up over and over and over while the creators show a combination of willful and unintentional ignorance and naivety.
This creator waxed poetic about that bittersweet poison and painful nostalgia born from too many violent JRPG cliches? So have many other people in the community, all demonstrating a shocking and appalling lack of self-awareness that isn't very impressive or profound.
There is a category for these kinds of people, and no matter how much the irony lovers keep trying to deny reality, there is a highly visible pattern if you know what to be on guard for:
"I have been LetsPlaying video games since 2006, I have NEVER never come across people getting so upset over a fucking video game, in the comments before. Like, personally offended, thinking less of me as a human being for my decisions in a video game and that blows my mind."
-Mangaminx
"My mistake was thinking that video games are art. I wanted to make a game about a guy who’s a piece of shit unlikable character, who by the end of the game has to transform. But too many gamers, when they look at this, when they play a game, they’re so used to having to identify with the character, that if they play a game where the main character is unlikable or has to do some bad stuff, they immediately get triggered by it. So, the thing is, games aren’t art. They’re toys for children and it’s considered in bad form to talk about anything meaningful, or impactful or thought provoking." -Andrew Allanson, YIIK
From all these dismal situations and attitudes seen over the years, I've learned that the sassier a content creator is with their content and internet personas, the more likely they are to be genuinely toxic and petty and spiteful over the most trivial of disagreements. It's a pattern of demonstrated behavior over time.
It's very easy to accuse someone of being a troll for not liking Undertale's narrative or the cast while ignoring the fact that it is very insane to say that players can be held solely responsible for the mere existence of a video game route that Toby Fox chose to program into his video game in the first place.
Nobody put a gun to Toby Fox's head and forced him to create Genocide or Snowgrave, but such fans and followers often like to pretend otherwise for the sake of an ironic punchline. Because it makes them feel proud, or satisfied, or intelligent. As long as some acceptable target 'fails' to get the 'joke' and opens themselves up to unnecessary ridicule. It happens again and again and I'm not fond of it.
Though, it's not very surprising when you consider that games like Spec Ops: The Line are created with similar mindsets while appealing to the same groups of followers.
But in the end...
"A game with one choice is no different than a game with two choices, or a game with ten thousand million choices, because these choices function as part of a larger system, and a system cannot help but make claims."
There's not much that an individual or a small collection of individuals can do about these groups of people, yeah?
But you can't force people to bend the knee to people who constantly demand respect that hasn't been earned.
You can tell. Spend five minutes listening to what these people say and how they say it, and you can tell.
You're free to complain about me and my honest words if they frustrate you, but in a world where almost any open thought or idea can instantly be turned against you by a bunch of angry, misanthropic, nihilistic, fatalistic, deterministic, irony-obsessed adults who act like spoiled little brats whenever somebody dares to say, 'no, this is not funny or admirable and I do not approve of your terrible, childish behavior...'
You can't bulldoze wit with more wit, so I want to find ways to push past the ironic defense of wit to help create something honest, something that means something because I say it does, regardless of all the terrible people out there who choose to screech instead of listen.
So, I'm going to keep asking questions and pointing out the things that the irony lovers keep trying to sweep under the rug, because there's always room for a little more honesty if you know where to look for it.
But despite all that, I do appreciate your honesty. It is a very rare quality around these parts.
