Post by Teophilo in Why is there a rape tag?

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Thanks for the clarification. That makes sense. So users are the ones that create new tags, without any restrictions for now.

However, my original question goes a bit deeper than just addressing the technicality of how tags are created. Rather, I meant to emphasize the why certain games under certain tags are allowed.

Just to be clear, on itch.io's Terms of Service, specifically under section 3 (Acceptable Use) it states that "Prohibited actions include but are not limited to: posting content that promotes or participates in racial intolerance, sexism..." (among others). If one looks up the definition of sexism (Wikipedia link), it is quite clear that << objectifying women and portraying them in submissive roles reduces women to mere tools, and is a form of sex discrimination>>. By allowing certain games to promote sexual abuse (rape included) and sexual objectification as their main content, are we not allowing sexism and thus violating the Terms of Service?

If that is not the case, I would like to know what constitutes sexism and sexual discrimination according to Itch.io. Just so that I know if I'm only wasting my time by trying to report here games that are inappropriate.

I think we can agree that rules only have meaning if they are enforced. Otherwise, they are useless.

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Mango Scribble2 years ago(+4)

I want to offer a counterpoint, the overzealous enforcement of the stated terms will result in excessive censorship that will cause more harm than good. For example in this case, if you strictly follow the rule that prohibits "content that participates in racial intolerance" then this applies to games that portray racism to tell a story or to educate (such as a visual novel about the life of a minority in a very hostile, racist environment). And "content that participates in sexism" will also ban all games that do contain such events but is no way centered around it. Such as an LGBTQ Visual Novel depicting how a trans person is treated in society. So you are saying by strictly enforcing this rule, let's ban even educational content or just games that use such elements to show a point/tell a story.

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Teophilo2 years ago(+1)

I see your point and I agree with you. Perhaps I didn’t explain myself. I believe the rules prohibit content that “promotes or participate” in sexism or racism. By “participate” I think it means “take part”, actively involving for a cause, not just mentioning a topic for educational purposes (that is something different, it’s not actually advocating or promoting discrimination, it’s the opposite: educating to not discriminate).

It’s clear when a game is just depicting discrimination to tell a personal story, and when a game is presenting sexual abuse for the gratification of the viewers. We all know the difference when we see it, right?

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Mango Scribble2 years ago (2 edits) (+2)

> By “participate” I think it means “take part”, actively involving for a cause, not just mentioning a topic for educational purposes

I had the same definition in mind for the term "participate". I'm not talking about works that only mention sexism or racism from an offhand remark, there are works that go extensively into detail. To sufficiently tell its story, a game may need to "get down and dirty" with its imagery and scenes. To Kill a Mockingbird had many openly racist quotes and violence stemming from racism. If we strictly enforce the rule that prohibits content that takes part in openly showing racism then we are also banning works like To Kill a Mockingbird.

> It’s clear when a game is just depicting discrimination to tell a personal story, and when a game is presenting sexual abuse for the gratification of the viewers.

You are right that it is clear, but currently, the rule you quoted only prohibits the games from participating in sexism and racism, the rule makes no distinction between depicting this content for the gratification of the viewer and for a different purpose so enforcing it strictly will result in excessive censorship.

I recommend the proposed change to an extensive revision of the rules rather than excessive censorship.

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Teophilo2 years ago

I couldn’t agree more with you. I for sure support your suggestion that a revision of the rules is needed. That is probably the best solution that avoids the two extremes (either excessive censorship like you mentioned or not enforcing the rules at all, both equally bad I’d say).

So, moving forward, how can we ask for a revision of the rules?

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Mango Scribble2 years ago (1 edit) (+1)

We could make a thread on the feedback forum section to propose the change to the Itch.io ToS (and also better enforcement). Hopefully, we can form a constructive discussion around this issue with the mods and also other Itch.io users on how to modify the rules to properly single out problematic submissions.

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Teophilo2 years ago

That sounds good to me. Thank you.

Would you like to start the thread? I feel I tend to sound a bit more leaning towards censorship whereas the way you expressed your opinion seemed balanced to me.

If you prefer I take the initiative I’ll create the post tomorrow morning.

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Mango Scribble2 years ago

I'm sorry but I procrastinated too much and have a ton of work to catch up for the next few days :(

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Teophilo2 years ago

No worries! I just created the thread. You can find the link here.

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Eldwood2 years ago(+1)

Two problems with this.

One is that rape only looks misogynistic if you're only considering male-on-female rape. However there's also male-on-male, female-on-male, and female-on-female rape, both in real life and in fiction. The assumption that all rapists are male and all victims are female is itself sexist.

The other one is that for people who actively fantasize about rape, as opposed to opportunistic rapists in the real world, dominating and humiliating a real person is very much part of the fantasy. It's not that these people don't see their victims as human, it's that they get their jollies by sexually dominating another human being. And frankly I'd rather that they play out their fantasies in a game than in real life.

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Teophilo2 years ago

You are right. Sexual abuse should be condemned regardless of the sex / gender of the abuser and the victim. That is a good point. I gave you credit for it in the new post.

I would appreciate if you participate in the discussion in the forum. Thank you!

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