I read that part, she let slip the fact that she hadn't been going to church in the last 2 weeks, time the other nuns had said she didn't show up and she herself had said the superior mother withdraws for about 3 weeks ..... almost the time she was without going to church, the way she talks, seeming to know her very well, it's pretty obvious that she has something to do with her superior mother at least, that's enough to distrust her, not to mention that you can see her on the street when he has the feeling of being followed, and on the train she appears, which makes me wonder if at this point in the championship he was already suspicious of her... what to tell her everything? there is also the dialogue in yellow.... he could have been suspicious of her already.... but apparently it gives the impression that he was more concerned about eating her. Good. That's what I think, it was so obvious that she at least had some relationship with her superior mother just because she said she had missed church and the way she talked about her, if the game was "among us" she would be suspicious " haha" which makes even less sense to reveal things, if I put myself in the detective's shoes, I wouldn't have told you about the camera, even because the camera was positioned in front of the church entrance, and the nuns stay there with a certain frequency, I could have gotten more information. But well, that's what I think, if it would be the most appropriate decision, I'm not sure, but I think it would make more sense.
Bro seriously...
MC specifically said that he is laying a trap and by the time the Mother Superior notices it will be already too late because he's like 15 steps ahead of her.. He blabbed all that sht to get fool the convent ladies into letting their guards down..
Just don't take every word at face value. If you still can't believe me then ask yourself this..
How can MC use the bloodstream wiretap from Moe?
Who did he use it on?
When did he use it?
Look back and you'll find answers to that. I personally have no clue about writing techniques and styles but at the very least, the foreshadowings in the convent mission is perfect and is a testament that there is more to the MC's wacky personality.
i read this part, i know who was the one that he use it, i know when he use, i never told anything about this, i didn't told about it because it was a good idea, the wiretap was okay, but so what?
i was focused on their conversation on the train because this is the part that didn't make any sense for me. Is hard to believe that the MC was planning a trap, when himself was thinking "i should try to impress her more with the detective stuff, imagine if i turn out to be the hero who solved the case at HER church, she'd be totally hooked! who knows i might even GET LUCKY WITH HER, damn she's really quite a sweet delight, especially with tears weiling up on her eyes" well, that's really 15 steps....15 steps of kamasutra....
looks like he was lucky, lucky that his trap worked, and not that he actually planned it, because there was so much to go wrong, that the game could have ended right there, if the superior mother had been cautious instead of proud, she could have have fooled him easily, she already knew he was a detective, she didn't need to go to church with him, he only found out that she was the superior mother because she went along and the nuns told him, but she could have left, she already knew that he was a detective, she already knew what case he worked on, while he only had one suspect "assuming that he suspected"... she could easily left and make a plan to kill him. That's the point, so much could go wrong that it's convenient that his plan worked. He give her so much information, that if she intented to kill him, she would..
If this is about the thoughts of the MC while he was speaking with the Mother Superior in the train then we can chalk it up to the MC being an unreliable narrator. From the very start of the story, it was hinted many times that the MC is an unreliable narrator, e.g: contradicting thoughts, contradictory actions, weird dreams, and seemingly poor/blurry memory. Recent events that show this is the therapy session, depraved option during the masked Catherine scene and the cigarette scene with Vixie where he blatantly lies. But even then,in my point of view, what MC thinks during the train part isn't the focus of that encounter.
What matters is the first impression he gave the Mother Superior during her most cautious phase. The moment I saw the wiretap scene, everything clicked for me. That first encounter with the Mother Superior where he portrayed himself as a horny, skirt-chasing rookie detective, him exposing his own tricks showcasing conceit, him getting slapped by Teresa further showing a pathetic appearance and him further making a "fool" of himself by then blatantly accusing the Mother Superior. After all of those, the Mother Superior wrote him off as a simple, stupid rookie detective. An incompetent guy. But for the MC this means multiple things:
1. He effectively made the Mother Superior's interest in him decline therefore reducing her cautiousness towards him and lessening the possibility of her sending 24/7 surveillance or worse - a hit- on the MC
2. He managed to inject the wiretap in a person of interest and even got the camera trick to work which gives him another possible lead to pursue in case the first lead goes to a dead end.
3. He pretty much confirms Moe's suspicions about the Mother Superior being a shady character because the Mother Superior herself gave away that she is capable of far more things than a normal Mother Superior's capabilities.
Remember though that all these things are just prerequisites before our MC even has a chance of unraveling the mystery of this convent. He seized the initiative in this case at this moment because after those "stupid" actions of his, he is now truly one step ahead of the Mother Superior and will try to widen the gap under her radar.
And yes he was lucky. But the only lucky part is that the Mother Superior herself decided to approach him instead of 1)sending another person to make contact with him or 2)just quietly continuing her surveillance on his actions. Even if we assume that she was more cautious and did one of the things I said above, this will only delay the MC's investigation and might force him to inject the wiretap to someone else. Now this might open up some interesting alternate scenarios but, in my opinion, this will just prolong the case, increase devtime and bore the players waiting for updates. Same results if the Mother Superior instantly decides to get him killed, MC will somehow survive the attempt and might even get closer to the heart of the case but yea, this will muddy the case early on and depending on what happens, might even change the whole church investigation sequence.
Now I'm not saying that Moolah's story is 100% perfect. Just like you said, about the Carly and Ryan Elsinger story of Sage's side quest, the MC got kidnapped, woke up from an overdose (based on the two thugs' dialogue) then escaped. Now that part where he got kidnapped makes sense to me because remember he is just trying to find out if Ryan is actually cheating so he was caught off guard when he discovered its much more sinister. But what doesn't make sense to me instead is how come the thugs didn't hunt him down after he escaped. Although it's probably because the Sage side quest isn't finished yet so I'm still positive that Moolah will address that issue in the coming updates.
All in all, I can't really say anything about the
"you'll know later" story doesn't convince
and the comparison to your teacher's fantasy story but Deviant Anomalies, spoiler alert is a mystery story so expect more of this type of situations where the dev will sprinkle foreshadowing everywhere. I don't understand your statement:
I'm not saying to tell us the whole story, but if you leave it to explain the "now", "tomorrow"... it will only waste time
because in every detective/murder mystery/conspiracy movies and stories I consumed, the explanations are intentionally withheld from the audience until the big reveal where the protagonist reveals the timeline of events, motives of the involved parties and the evidences that support his conclusion into a final retelling of the true story that happened in one fell swoop.
Moolah provided enough crumbs of information to help the audience see the premise of the main storyline and enough foreshadowing to help the audience arrive to their own theories. And most important of all, MC didn't particularly act out of character and all his actions make plausible sense. Moolah most likely already has the church case finished in story form and that's why he keeps saying that it will be shown later because he doesn't want to spoil it.
Now if your feedback is about how this is lazy writing or whatnot, then I wouldn't have replied because most people that comment about lazy writing can't be convinced otherwise so it's just a waste of time responding to those (although it is good feedback that one/many reader is getting annoyed/distracted by the writing style).
Regarding the "you will know later" part; maybe in the end, it's just a matter of preference, or maybe it varies depending on the literary imagination of the audience. Heck, Mia kinda scares me just because Spade said that the MC isn't the one that killed their guardians and I just have this tiiiny suspicion that the Mother Superior will be best girl among the Vanderbilt ladies.
BUT, at the very least, I can say that the story has a great hook and good narrative momentum. It has some nice foreshadowings and I'm almost certain that there are red herrings mixed in there somewhere. The connections between the Vanderbilt-Elsinger shit, the clock(time?)maker-deviant magical shit and MC's past can be considered as the main plot(I think) and is certainly intriguing. With these many open storylines to expand on, project potential is skyhigh and Moolah Milk is responsive to his community.
I know that you said in your original comment that you are not insulting the dev and you are just giving feedback. I understand that and I'm also not looking for a fight here. I just wanted to say that quickly dismissing MC's actions and words as stupidity may not be the prudent approach. If the scenarios I outlined in my previous comment still doesn't convince you that MC's actions are properly thought out and well within his capabilities; If it still doesn't convince you that the dev, in that particular scenario you dubbed as "so much could go wrong"(which it isn't btw), didn't make everything to magically turn out convenient and lucky for the MC; If you are still convinced that the MC's thoughts are 100% truth then there's nothing more I can say to convince you otherwise. You will most likely chalk it up to the "you will know later doesn't convince" argument and we will just go back full circle.
I understand what you said, I just think it could have been more consistent, instead of making his thoughts contradict his actions, like a true investigator, he can think about how beautiful she is no problem, but the moment she talks about the superior mother, about what she was like, he could have stopped and thought something like "how does she know so much about the superior mother?" or when she mentions the time she didn't go to church, "so she didn't go to church for 2 weeks... about as long as the superior mother retires... interesting" now if his thoughts don't mean nothing, so why put them in history? let his actions alone speak for themselves...I understand what you said, but that doesn't take away the impression that he was just lucky and didn't plan anything. I know both stories are different, but the situation is the same. About the movies, I do the same analysis, because I've worked with it, with police, investigators, lawyers, my boss was the ex-director of the biggest penitentiary here in the state to "PCE" the movies aren't perfect either, and I do the same criticism, but that doesn't mean I didn't like it. I liked the game so far, I only bothered with this part because it leaves room for luck and not for planning, and in a real investigation, especially when it comes to a murder, trusting luck is asking to die. If he's planning something, at least make it look like he's planning it, being suspicious of some of her lines for example, and not thinking all the time about how pretty she is. That way you won't be able to think that he was lucky, because you really could see that he was planning something.
This statement
I understand what you said, but that doesn't take away the impression that he was just lucky and didn't plan anything
Do you really understand? Because the wiretap scene should've removed that impression entirely. In these narratives that use an unreliable narrator, readers' impressions will vary BUT only during the first read through. Once new and reliable info is revealed, most readers will reevaluate their perspective of the situation and use it as a tool to ascertain the credibility of the preceding narration. In our case, this new and reliable information is the wiretap scene. The wiretap scene is neither a dream nor a delusion and this establishes the fact that MC managed to inject the wiretap to either Teresa or Victoria.
With this in mind, we should reinterpret the previous actions of the MC regarding this case. I replayed the "Who did it" part of the case and below are the events that follow:
1) MC goes to the office to check the forensic report. He feels he is being followed but notes it as just his imagination.
2) Spade tells that the report is late and says that when this happens, someone is withholding the information. He then tells MC to visit Moe.
3) Mall visit. MC takes wiretap and cams. Moe tells that this church is shady as shit and its Mother Superior, usually a well-known individual, doesn't even have a single info or pic in the church's own database. MC has an idea and goes home
4) MC proceeds with his cam idea to bait the nuns into making a move. Goes home after installing.
5) Start of train scene. MC is standing in train, receives message from Moe which visibly surprises him. Then he feels he is being followed again but this time notes "What a fascinating situation". MC then decides to take a seat.
6) Train encounter. MC ponders about the case then, due to frustration, exclaims aloud "Damn you Mother Superior" coincidentally startling a beautiful lady. She asks if MC is okay then MC casually reveals he's a detective and there's a case in a nearby church. Turns out the lady goes to the church and she asks MC who he suspects but instead of taking caution, MC didn't give two shits and said he is interested with the Mother Superior; an ugly and old hag who can't possibly be sane after all the years of no sex. Then the lady says the Mother Superior will be hard to interrogate. MC said that detectives have their ways and he will be 10 steps ahead and his actions will be designed to bend the Mother Superior and make her spill the truth. Train ride ends.
7) In front of church. Lady introduces herself as Victoria and tells MC she will have his babies if he solves the case but sadly, looks like MC has no leads. MC points out the wall camera and calls it his lead. He even gives out his 3 step plan vs the Mother Superior; Identify the opponent, gather info then set the trap. Even bragged that "Being a detective is like chess. Disguise your moves and lure the opponent to a false sense of security". Then Victoria hugged MC, he thought "wow she hugged me.. this is perfect" then Victoria calls MC naughty for caressing her neck and that it's all tingly now. He apologized then they went to the church.
8) Church. MC got bitchslapped. Victoria revealed as the Mother Superior. Then MC, in apparent anger, pathetically and desperately accuses Victoria then demanded the key to the library. Victoria obliges, shows the key in a safe, states that she's the only one that know the combination and that she's not in the church when the incident happened. MC left after.
As written above, these are the events that should be reevaluated after the wiretap scene. Based on the info "MC managed to inject the wiretap", it can be safely said that the MC succeeded. But is it because the MC just got lucky? No, of course not. The MC already formulated a plan to bait the nuns the moment he saw Moe's 2 cams.
Whether or not he received Moe's message and; Whether or not he met the Mother Superior in the train, it doesn't change the fact that the MC already has a plan even before going to install the cams. MC wasn't just lucky, he actually has a plan.
Now if this is about the statement
I understand what you said, I just think it could have been more consistent, instead of making his thoughts contradict his actions
Again. It has been hinted multiple times that MC may be suffering from some sort of dissociation, making him an unreliable narrator. His thoughts are neither 100% truth nor 100% complete, but that doesn't mean they are not important. It is up to the readers to determine the credibility of the narration but that's what the wiretap scene is for. It sets an irrefutable fact and helps the reader work out the story with this fact as a guide.
So during the train scene, MC kept thinking about how beautiful she is and all 15 steps of kama sutra even when Victoria revealed suspicious info about herself. Why? Because he want to come off as an easygoing and incompetent detective, his thoughts are for himself to keep staying in character. He already knows he is dealing with the Mother Superior so why bother think about these
"how does she know so much about the superior mother?" or when she mentions the time she didn't go to church, "so she didn't go to church for 2 weeks... about as long as the superior mother retires... interesting"
What's my basis on this? Because when Moe messaged him, he reacted in visible surprise then he turned around to look at the unusual feeling and noted it as "What a fascinating situation". Remember that in both times, Victoria was caught in the peripheral vision of the MC. He knows he is being followed by this girl, add to it Moe's message and his reaction to this situation then it isn't unreasonable to assume that the message MC received is a pic of the Mother Superior.
Then here's another statement of yours
If he's planning something, at least make it look like he's planning it
This one is understandable if it's your first read through. But after the, you-guessed-it, wiretap scene then this is just sad. As shown in the event sequence above, take note of all the bolded phrases on the list then use the "MC managed to inject the wiretap" fact to interpret it. Was it just coincidence that he startled Victoria? Why did MC casually insult the Mother Superior infront of Victoria even though he knows she's a regular churchgoer? Was it just carelessness that made the MC ignore all the signs that Victoria might be the Mother Superior? Why would MC point out the cam to Victoria instead of the nuns? This shit reeks of premeditation. The moment he received the message from Moe, he adapted his plan to include the Mother Superior. He made contact with her, portrayed incompetence, provoked her, used the cam bait on her instead of the nuns, injected the wiretap and even managed to confirm the location of the library key. With so many obvious hints that's revealed after the wiretap scene, it's just sad if these results are still attributed to luck instead of planning.
I say you follow dev's advice and reread. And I won't deny MC is lucky. He banged 2 Vanderbilts already after all. But in this Victoria case, its not luck at play.
And we never know about the murder of MC's guardians. It was during the snowstorm after all. It might be Mia, berserking with powers or MC or maybe it's his deviant prophecy sht. Might even be those monsters that attacked MC or a different species. Even if it's a cliche, I trust dev will implement it beautifully.
Boy... I did what you asked, read, reread, reread again, I took advantage of the fact that I had free time and spent a good amount of time reading, calmly and patiently.
First, I make it clear that I don't know the developer.
I'm not a game developer, I don't even know how to program anything, I'm a guy who likes to read, and write, and as a physics student and having worked with police and lawyers, I love logic.
That said, everything I say is not personal, it's just my honest opinion and I'll be extremely honest.
...................................
I read everything from the beginning of the game until the night he goes to the room to listen to the recording, I stopped there, because I was already out of patience for so much idiocy, many mistakes both in his actions, as in the actions of the other characters, I could write a book on how not to be a detective using this MC as an example.
During the convent, when questioning the sisters, he shows that he was really trying to conclude the case, he doesn't scoff, he's focused, but I agree with Miriam, "He lacks intelligence and wisdom!", imagine the echo that must have in the head of the MC due to the absence of a brain, seeing him trying to pressure his sister Delilah for example was a joke "are you lying to me Delilah?" Seriously? he should really be a comedian because he is a joke in human form. Is this how he wants to apply psychological pressure? not even a child falls for it. And worst of all is the seriousness with which he says it, as if he's saying "ArE yOu LyInG tO mE dEliLaH?" I would laugh in the face of a guy like that, and it only gets worse when he goes to accuse Teresa, she literally played with him there, instead of making a more subtle approach, no he decided to kick the door, if she wanted to get out of there what would he do? run after her and tell Spade she was to blame? I know it's a murder investigation, but an aggressive approach only works when you have a sense of the person's personality, and he clearly didn't have that. Continuing my torture session, he had already passed on to the sisters that he came to complete the case, despite being a rookie he proved to be a hardworking detective....dumb but hardworking, with that in mind, it makes no sense none had acted like a complete moron around Victoria, as the other sisters had contact with him, it was only Victoria asking the sisters how he acted in the investigation before she arrived, which easily all the effort he put in to be the fool of the court in front of her would fall, she had only to ask how he conducted the investigation, he didn't play the clown around the sisters, so making a fool of himself around Victoria would obviously be a trap.
Historical mistakes also happen, like the spear, this one was heartbreaking "the recovery of the lance was used to inspire the offensive against the muslims on the first crusade", whatever they're teaching about religious history, they're teaching it wrong Hell, the spear was used as propaganda during the siege of Antiquoia, and it was used towards the end of the siege, when Christian troops were disinheriting due to the heat and lack of water and supplies, all of which added to the news that the Muslims were sending reinforcements of 200,000 Turks into the city, to attack the Christians, the soldiers' morale was low, so a monk named Bartholomew claimed to have received a message from God, saying that the spear of Longinus would be in a church in the city, he went there and appeared with a spear saying that that was the spear of Longinus, this boosted the morale of the crusaders who managed to drive the Muslims out of the city. But she speaks as if the spear was the reason for the first crusade. No shit! the spear was used in a siege and towards the end of this siege, it was not the cause of the crusade. The reason was completely different, it was the retaking of the holy land that started with Pedro de Amiens, and soon after it intensified with the summons of Pope Urban II, and the mistakes don't stop there, there's a lot of shit ahead, it would be possible to transform history of this MC in a "Codex Gigas of shit", the more I read, the worse it got, I don't know what kind of "Big Brain Time" went through his head, when he saw that wiretap, he thought he was doing well, being the good of the story, the master of detective wizards.
Fucking idiot! injecting someone with an unknown substance, and on top of that directly into the bloodstream.. what could go wrong shit Sherlock?....let me guess... SHE COULD JUST DIE? AND WITH THAT HE WOULD BE TRAPPED IN THE BEST OF HYPOTHESES? BECAUSE THERE WAS ALSO THE HIGH POSSIBILITY OF VITORIA'S FAMILY TO KILL HIM, AND THAT WOULD PROBABLY HAPPEN. Holy shit, what was going through this guy's head? First, it is not easy to hit a vein, no matter how large the veins in the neck are, this does not mean that training is not necessary, as even doctors make mistakes, and often it has serious consequences. Infections, hemorrhages, and even death. HE COULD HAVE KILLED HER. It's already a bad idea to inject someone with something. Injecting something unknown then is a certificate of idiot, a guy like that only serves to make weight in the world, even if the capsules he injected were safe and he was a "Carlos Chagas" of life, it would still be a ridiculous idea, because he didn't you know if she could have any reaction to these capsules, or if these capsules could dissolve, then she would have a micro recorder full of toxic components coursing through her bloodstream.
Congratulations genius.
But the problem is not just him, Vitória is just not stupid anymore because she is just one. She already knew he was a detective, she says it herself, she had his profile, he's even surprised that she knows his last name, without him telling. With all this, how is this woman not suspicious when he gives her the injection? HOLY FUCKING SHIT! is a bloody needle piercing her flesh, and she just thinks it's a caress? what kind of person caresses by piercing another's neck? she doesn't even suspect the idiot was up to something. Anyone would have recoiled from the pain, and she knew he was a detective, it was obvious something was wrong. That's not overconfidence, it's ridiculous, if in the MC's head it echoes, in hers there would be room to do a Bon Jovi show. It seems that there is no reflex act in her. But at least I could laugh at some stupid things, like that asshole who went to take the camera away. How did he not see that he had a second camera? if it was a micro camera, it would be understandable, but my friend...... that thing is almost the size of an adult Shih-Tzu. "but he's wearing a mask..he can't see right" you could see such crap even with sunglasses living in China. But I'll excuse him, he must be a fan of "BLIND guardian", and his favorite song must be "follow the BLIND"
That's it, I read, reread, reread it again, for hours, and now I have no doubts, the story is horrible, I had said that I liked the game until then, I take back what I said, I started to hate it, I hadn't paid attention to so many errors, if such a detective exists in Brazil, I guarantee he doesn't exist anymore. I don't need to say why. Once again, I emphasize that I have nothing against the developer, for those who read what I wrote, and enjoyed the game, keep playing and enjoy. This is merely my opinion, for me the game is horrible. I know I'm not at an airport, but I'll announce my departure anyway. Bye and good game everyone. I will stop here because i want to sleep and because i don't care anymore. Goodnight.