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I understand what you said, but that doesn't take away the impression that he was just lucky and didn't plan anything

Do you really understand? Because the wiretap scene should've removed that impression entirely. In these narratives that use an unreliable narrator, readers' impressions will vary BUT only during the first read through. Once new and reliable info is revealed, most readers will reevaluate their perspective of the situation and use it as a tool to ascertain the credibility of the preceding narration. In our case, this new and reliable information is the wiretap scene. The wiretap scene is neither a dream nor a delusion and this establishes the fact that MC managed to inject the wiretap to either Teresa or Victoria.

With this in mind, we should reinterpret the previous actions of the MC regarding this case. I replayed the "Who did it" part of the case and below are the events that follow:

1) MC goes to the office to check the forensic report. He feels he is being followed but notes it as just his imagination.

2) Spade tells that the report is late and says that when this happens, someone is withholding the information. He then tells MC to visit Moe.

3) Mall visit. MC takes wiretap and cams. Moe tells that this church is shady as shit and its Mother Superior, usually a well-known individual, doesn't even have a single info or pic in the church's own database. MC has an idea and goes home

4) MC proceeds with his cam idea to bait the nuns into making a move. Goes home after installing.

5) Start of train scene. MC is standing in train, receives message from Moe which visibly surprises him. Then he feels he is being followed again but this time notes "What a fascinating situation". MC then decides to take a seat.

6) Train encounter. MC ponders about the case then, due to frustration, exclaims aloud "Damn you Mother Superior" coincidentally startling a beautiful lady. She asks if MC is okay then MC casually reveals he's a detective and there's a case in a nearby church. Turns out the lady goes to the church and she asks MC who he suspects but instead of taking caution, MC didn't give two shits and said he is interested with the Mother Superior; an ugly and old hag who can't possibly be sane after all the years of no sex. Then the lady says the Mother Superior will be hard to interrogate. MC said that detectives have their ways and he will be 10 steps ahead and his actions will be designed to bend the Mother Superior and make her spill the truth. Train ride ends.

7) In front of church. Lady introduces herself as Victoria and tells MC she will have his babies if he solves the case but sadly, looks like MC has no leads. MC points out the wall camera and calls it his lead. He even gives out his 3 step plan vs the Mother Superior; Identify the opponent, gather info then set the trap. Even bragged that "Being a detective is like chess. Disguise your moves and lure the opponent to a false sense of security". Then Victoria hugged MC, he thought "wow she hugged me.. this is perfect" then Victoria calls MC naughty for caressing her neck and that it's all tingly now. He apologized then they went to the church.

8) Church. MC got bitchslapped. Victoria revealed as the Mother Superior. Then MC, in apparent anger, pathetically and desperately accuses Victoria then demanded the key to the library. Victoria obliges, shows the key in a safe, states that she's the only one that know the combination and that she's not in the church when the incident happened. MC left after.

As written above, these are the events that should be reevaluated after the wiretap scene. Based on the info "MC managed to inject the wiretap", it can be safely said that the MC succeeded. But is it because the MC just got lucky? No, of course not. The MC already formulated a plan to bait the nuns the moment he saw Moe's 2 cams.

Whether or not he received Moe's message and; Whether or not he met the Mother Superior in the train, it doesn't change the fact that the MC already has a plan even before going to install the cams. MC wasn't just lucky, he actually has a plan.

Now if this is about the statement

I understand what you said, I just think it could have been more consistent, instead of making his thoughts contradict his actions

Again. It has been hinted multiple times that MC may be suffering from some sort of dissociation, making him an unreliable narrator. His thoughts are neither 100% truth nor 100% complete, but that doesn't mean they are not important. It is up to the readers to determine the credibility of the narration but that's what the wiretap scene is for. It sets an irrefutable fact and helps the reader work out the story with this fact as a guide.

So during the train scene, MC kept thinking about how beautiful she is and all 15 steps of kama sutra even when Victoria revealed suspicious info about herself. Why? Because he want to come off as an easygoing and incompetent detective, his thoughts are for himself to keep staying in character. He already knows he is dealing with the Mother Superior so why bother think about these

"how does she know so much about the superior mother?" or when she mentions the time she didn't go to church, "so she didn't go to church for 2 weeks... about as long as the superior mother retires... interesting"

What's my basis on this? Because when Moe messaged him, he reacted in visible surprise then he turned around to look at the unusual feeling and noted it as "What a fascinating situation". Remember that in both times, Victoria was caught in the peripheral vision of the MC. He knows he is being followed by this girl, add to it Moe's message and his reaction to this situation then it isn't unreasonable to assume that the message MC received is a pic of the Mother Superior.

Then here's another statement of yours

If he's planning something, at least make it look like he's planning it

This one is understandable if it's your first read through. But after the, you-guessed-it, wiretap scene then this is just sad. As shown in the event sequence above, take note of all the bolded phrases on the list then use the "MC managed to inject the wiretap" fact to interpret it. Was it just coincidence that he startled Victoria? Why did MC casually insult the Mother Superior infront of Victoria even though he knows she's a regular churchgoer? Was it just carelessness that made the MC ignore all the signs that Victoria might be the Mother Superior? Why would MC point out the cam to Victoria instead of the nuns? This shit reeks of premeditation. The moment he received the message from Moe, he adapted his plan to include the Mother Superior. He made contact with her, portrayed incompetence, provoked her, used the cam bait on her instead of the nuns, injected the wiretap and even managed to confirm the location of the library key. With so many obvious hints that's revealed after the wiretap scene, it's just sad if these results are still attributed to luck instead of planning.

I say you follow dev's advice and reread. And I won't deny MC is lucky. He banged 2 Vanderbilts already after all. But in this Victoria case, its not luck at play.

yournormalking2 years ago

And we never know about the murder of MC's guardians. It was during the snowstorm after all. It might be Mia, berserking with powers or MC or maybe it's his deviant prophecy sht. Might even be those monsters that attacked MC or a different species. Even if it's a cliche, I trust dev will implement it beautifully.

NotGay20222 years ago (1 edit)

Boy... I did what you asked, read, reread, reread again, I took advantage of the fact that I had free time and spent a good amount of time reading, calmly and patiently.

First, I make it clear that I don't know the developer.

I'm not a game developer, I don't even know how to program anything, I'm a guy who likes to read, and write, and as a physics student and having worked with police and lawyers, I love logic.

That said, everything I say is not personal, it's just my honest opinion and I'll be extremely honest.

...................................

I read everything from the beginning of the game until the night he goes to the room to listen to the recording, I stopped there, because I was already out of patience for so much idiocy, many mistakes both in his actions, as in the actions of the other characters, I could write a book on how not to be a detective using this MC as an example.

During the convent, when questioning the sisters, he shows that he was really trying to conclude the case, he doesn't scoff, he's focused, but I agree with Miriam, "He lacks intelligence and wisdom!", imagine the echo that must have in the head of the MC due to the absence of a brain, seeing him trying to pressure his sister Delilah for example was a joke "are you lying to me Delilah?" Seriously? he should really be a comedian because he is a joke in human form. Is this how he wants to apply psychological pressure? not even a child falls for it. And worst of all is the seriousness with which he says it, as if he's saying "ArE yOu LyInG tO mE dEliLaH?" I would laugh in the face of a guy like that, and it only gets worse when he goes to accuse Teresa, she literally played with him there, instead of making a more subtle approach, no he decided to kick the door, if she wanted to get out of there what would he do? run after her and tell Spade she was to blame? I know it's a murder investigation, but an aggressive approach only works when you have a sense of the person's personality, and he clearly didn't have that. Continuing my torture session, he had already passed on to the sisters that he came to complete the case, despite being a rookie he proved to be a hardworking detective....dumb but hardworking, with that in mind, it makes no sense none had acted like a complete moron around Victoria, as the other sisters had contact with him, it was only Victoria asking the sisters how he acted in the investigation before she arrived, which easily all the effort he put in to be the fool of the court in front of her would fall, she had only to ask how he conducted the investigation, he didn't play the clown around the sisters, so making a fool of himself around Victoria would obviously be a trap.

Historical mistakes also happen, like the spear, this one was heartbreaking "the recovery of the lance was used to inspire the offensive against the muslims on the first crusade", whatever they're teaching about religious history, they're teaching it wrong Hell, the spear was used as propaganda during the siege of Antiquoia, and it was used towards the end of the siege, when Christian troops were disinheriting due to the heat and lack of water and supplies, all of which added to the news that the Muslims were sending reinforcements of 200,000 Turks into the city, to attack the Christians, the soldiers' morale was low, so a monk named Bartholomew claimed to have received a message from God, saying that the spear of Longinus would be in a church in the city, he went there and appeared with a spear saying that that was the spear of Longinus, this boosted the morale of the crusaders who managed to drive the Muslims out of the city. But she speaks as if the spear was the reason for the first crusade. No shit! the spear was used in a siege and towards the end of this siege, it was not the cause of the crusade. The reason was completely different, it was the retaking of the holy land that started with Pedro de Amiens, and soon after it intensified with the summons of Pope Urban II, and the mistakes don't stop there, there's a lot of shit ahead, it would be possible to transform history of this MC in a "Codex Gigas of shit", the more I read, the worse it got, I don't know what kind of "Big Brain Time" went through his head, when he saw that wiretap, he thought he was doing well, being the good of the story, the master of detective wizards.

Fucking idiot! injecting someone with an unknown substance, and on top of that directly into the bloodstream.. what could go wrong shit Sherlock?....let me guess... SHE COULD JUST DIE? AND WITH THAT HE WOULD BE TRAPPED IN THE BEST OF HYPOTHESES? BECAUSE THERE WAS ALSO THE HIGH POSSIBILITY OF VITORIA'S FAMILY TO KILL HIM, AND THAT WOULD PROBABLY HAPPEN. Holy shit, what was going through this guy's head? First, it is not easy to hit a vein, no matter how large the veins in the neck are, this does not mean that training is not necessary, as even doctors make mistakes, and often it has serious consequences. Infections, hemorrhages, and even death. HE COULD HAVE KILLED HER. It's already a bad idea to inject someone with something. Injecting something unknown then is a certificate of idiot, a guy like that only serves to make weight in the world, even if the capsules he injected were safe and he was a "Carlos Chagas" of life, it would still be a ridiculous idea, because he didn't you know if she could have any reaction to these capsules, or if these capsules could dissolve, then she would have a micro recorder full of toxic components coursing through her bloodstream.

Congratulations genius.

But the problem is not just him, Vitória is just not stupid anymore because she is just one. She already knew he was a detective, she says it herself, she had his profile, he's even surprised that she knows his last name, without him telling. With all this, how is this woman not suspicious when he gives her the injection? HOLY FUCKING SHIT! is a bloody needle piercing her flesh, and she just thinks it's a caress? what kind of person caresses by piercing another's neck? she doesn't even suspect the idiot was up to something. Anyone would have recoiled from the pain, and she knew he was a detective, it was obvious something was wrong. That's not overconfidence, it's ridiculous, if in the MC's head it echoes, in hers there would be room to do a Bon Jovi show. It seems that there is no reflex act in her. But at least I could laugh at some stupid things, like that asshole who went to take the camera away. How did he not see that he had a second camera? if it was a micro camera, it would be understandable, but my friend...... that thing is almost the size of an adult Shih-Tzu. "but he's wearing a mask..he can't see right" you could see such crap even with sunglasses living in China. But I'll excuse him, he must be a fan of "BLIND guardian", and his favorite song must be "follow the BLIND"

That's it, I read, reread, reread it again, for hours, and now I have no doubts, the story is horrible, I had said that I liked the game until then, I take back what I said, I started to hate it, I hadn't paid attention to so many errors, if such a detective exists in Brazil, I guarantee he doesn't exist anymore. I don't need to say why. Once again, I emphasize that I have nothing against the developer, for those who read what I wrote, and enjoyed the game, keep playing and enjoy. This is merely my opinion, for me the game is horrible. I know I'm not at an airport, but I'll announce my departure anyway. Bye and good game everyone. I will stop here because i want to sleep and because i don't care anymore. Goodnight.

yournormalking2 years ago

First of all, I know you said that you don't care anymore but I will still write my response because I have free time now and just in case you care again. It's been almost a week after all.

So yeah, man.. Here I was just trying to prove that, during the Victoria part, our "MC planned it, it's not just luck" but here we go. You provided more examples of what you deemed as "idiocy" in the story. But seeing that you didn't say anything about the "just lucky, no planning" part, I'd just assume that you now agree with me on that part. Okay? So it is clear to me that you actually reread the story evidenced by the new points you brought up. I don't know why you started from the beginning of the game(maybe no savefiles?) but it's ok. I will address the things you've written about. First...

During the convent, when questioning the sisters, he shows that he was really trying to conclude the case, he doesn't scoff, he's focused

As someone who worked with police and investigators, you probably know that this is the initial investigation. Taking witness/suspect accounts, noting down clues in the scene, etc. so it makes sense for MC to be focused. Now I know you're saying that if the MC is focused here when dealing with the nuns then surely if he acts like a fool later Victoria will know what's up right? Don't worry, I will address it later. For now, this...

seeing him trying to pressure his sister Delilah for example was a joke

Hmm... How come? Just because of how he asked "are you lying to me" to Delilah? Let me remind you that the player can only accuse Delilah after seeing the gash on her hand and the nail with fresh blood. So let's put you in that situation. You, brave guy, in Delilah's shoes. You lied to the detective about not going to the library, detective accuses you "are you lying to me?", you laugh in his face as you said then detective suddenly says he found fresh blood on a bent nail in the shelves and will check if it matches yours, what now? Well, I bet you'll say that if it were you, you wouldn't have said anything at all in the first place. With all the lawyers you worked with, they prolly advised to avoid telling anything to authorities without the presence of a lawyer. But alas, you aren't Delilah. And it's pretty common for real life people to talk to authorities in these types of situations especially when a close associate died. Given that, I'd say what MC did is effective in applying some psychological pressure. Next...

it only gets worse when he goes to accuse Teresa, she literally played with him there

Huh? Teresa played with MC? I reread the 'accusing Teresa' part and MC didn't do the "kick the door" shit as you said. He was confrontational, yes, but he never went too far and only after Teresa admitted about "lying during the 911 call about a violent crime so the cops will arrive faster". He then used that timing to accuse her of being power-hungry, a possible motive to kill Anna. Naturally, this sends Teresa into defensive mode and reveals more info about her opinions on sister Anna, she even offers her own insight that it might be the gardener. Isn't this what investigators want? The more info acquired during the initial investigation, the better for them. Also, MC can clearly see that she's got a fierce personality just from the way she carries herself so why did you say this....

an aggressive approach only works when you have a sense of the person's personality, and he clearly didn't have that

Anyone can tell that Teresa has this superior vibe on her just based on how she acts and speaks. Why the hell would Teresa get out of there? Where would she go? Ask for a lawyer? Heck, she would've bitchslapped MC right then and there instead. But she didn't. Why? Because MC said "being power-hungry is her motive for murder", which she considered a silly accusation considering she likes Sister Anna and the politics between them is just a strategy to keep the novitiates in line. She even says "I thought you are incompetent when I first saw you. But you are even much more useless than I thought". This shows that she was confident from the start and is a safe target for the MC to use a provocative approach on because he knows that she will stand her ground and defend herself instead of refusing to speak or getting out of there. Given all that, it's clear that MC got what he wanted out of Teresa and not him getting played or whatever. Next...

he didn't play the clown around the sisters, so making a fool of himself around Victoria would obviously be a trap

So this is it. The sisters know how he acted during this part so surely Victoria will notice if MC is acting the fool later right? Wrong. Remember what MC did during the investigation. He kept accusing everyone of being the culprit. Blatantly to their face like he's entirely convinced. So let's imagine the situation where Victoria asks the nuns what they think of the MC. Teresa will probably say "incompetent detective with a silly imagination" and Miriam will say "he lacks intelligence and wisdom". But it's different for Delilah and Eve. Delilah is the one that felt the most pressured by the MC, she won't tell them that she was in the library that night and will just say what she felt. "Scared and intimidated". Now with Eve. She won't tell them that the MC managed to connect the dots between her and sister Anna because this'll expose that they were ex-lovers but she will still say her impression of MC, "seems competent enough". So with these, what would Victoria think? The senior nuns say "incompetent" but the novitiates see differently. So she followed MC in order to evaluate him personally. The moment she sees MC acting foolishly, she becomes convinced that the senior nuns are correct and the novitiates were mistaken. Makes sense too if we view it from a "trust" angle, Victoria has been working with the senior nuns for far longer than with the novitiates. She will naturally be inclined to favor Teresa, someone she handpicked herself 9 years ago, over Eve who's only been there for 1 year. She will never think she's caught in a trap because the MC's actions she saw and the actions reported by her most trusted sister Teresa are consistent with each other. Next...

Historical mistakes also happen, like the spear, this one was heartbreaking (lolwut?)

History huh. To make things clear, this is what Teresa said verbatim "The recovery of said lance was what inspired the Crusaders to take the offensive against the Muslims during the First Crusade". Where did she say that it was the reason for the First Crusade? It ISN'T even remotely feasible to say that she implied it in her words. Where did you even get this?! ~~Not just that, what the hell is Antiquoia?~~ ~~It was called Antioch back then and currently Antakya at the present~~ (Nevermind, I guess Antioquia is Portuguese? Spanish? I apologize for assuming you browse in English). But, where did you get 200,000? I am genuinely asking because the Muslim combatants involved in Antioch during this totals to ~65k - 75k only. And you also got the battle part wrong. You said that the boosted morale Crusaders drove the Muslim siege out of the city BUT Kerbogha didn't even get inside in the first place. The Crusaders ACTUALLY marched out of Antioch and engaged the Muslim outside of the city then routed them. With these mistakes, I'd say you're the one teaching wrong things. Well, at least the Peter the Hermit and Pope Urban II part is correct but, sadly, this is irrelevant because Teresa didn't even say that the lance was the cause of the crusade anyway. Next...

injecting someone with an unknown substance, and on top of that directly into the bloodstream

Science, I see. Finally something we can both agree on. I also thought that this wiretap in bloodstream is something that will eventually kill Victoria. You, physics guy, clearly thought so too but alas, we need to remind ourselves that this is a story and, like every other story, has a setting. This one is set in Netherhelm. Where an inexplicable snowstorm hit twice already. Where authorities are stretched thin with sooo many cases that they're forced to leave a single, newbie policewoman in charge of a murder scene while awaiting the arrival of detectives. A place where the MC met a woman that can turn invisible; fought a huge dick spider and two fucking humanoid monsters; got the shit beaten and clawed out of him by one yet he quickly recovered just within a couple of days without even going to a hospital. Surely with all the scifi shit above, one totally safe, 100% guaranteed no side effects bloodstream wiretap hardly seems unbelievable. This is just that type of story. Regarding the veins...

it is not easy to hit a vein

Most likely, the MC used the exterior jugular vein. It's easy to find and, as I said with the scifi sht above, MC perfectly hitting a vein is a hundred times more realistic. Heck, during the Sage quest kidnapping, Tiny accidentally gave him a possibly lethal dose yet he escaped and even drank a few beers with Sage, all with just a couple hours in between. Next, Victoria's "reflex act"...

Anyone would have recoiled from the pain, and she knew he was a detective, it was obvious something was wrong

Okay. There has been multiple real life reports where people, after contact with someone else, felt numb or tingly in a part of their body only to realize that they've been fucking stabbed by a knife. Not only that, there were also people that felt tingly in their fingers only to find out that their shoulders are fucked instead. Heck, during my COVID vaccination, I looked away so I won't see the needle pierce my flesh and was surprised when nurse said it's finished. I knew it was coming yet I didn't feel anything from start to finish. Taking all these in consideration, we go to the scene in front the church after MC revealed his master plan to corner the Mother Superior; Victoria jumped and hugged MC thinking something like "hehe sucker.. I'm the Mother Superior" then she felt tingly in her neck during the hug and she dismissed it as the lewd/rough caress of MC. Is that really so unbelievable? Heck, we can even add the fact that the wiretap syringe seemed like it's an autoinjector plus with all the established scifi aspects of the story, it seems plausible that Moe was able to at least create a syringe capable of stealthily and painlessly injecting the wiretap in a target. A prick in the neck going unnoticed can happen. Next then...

How did he not see that he had a second camera?

Masked henchman dude. Man, ok seriously. Let's say I ordered you to quickly remove a security camera before the MC can retrieve it. You then estimate that MC will be in the church for around 5 - 10mins. Time is short. But you can't just stand next to the cam while looking up at it suspiciously to figure out how to remove the memory card. So you decided to just yank the whole cam out. Seeing that you're dealing with a wall cam, you ready your tools, checked the nearby walls for other security cams and waited for the passersby to clear out. When the opportunity arises, you quickly got in there, unscrewed the cam, yanked it out and hauled ass all within 20 - 30secs. Clean work or so you thought. An adult shih tzu inside a trash bin was watching you quietly from start to finish. Now to our masked guy. Who would even watch out for cams inside a trash bin? Not to mention the time constraint and its not like he can just stop when a pedestrian witnesses him; So the moment the coast is clear, he just goes in and focuses entirely on removing the wall cam ASAP. Utmost priority is getting the "footage" in the cam out of MC's reach. Heck, the moment I saw that cam in trash bin , my first thoughts were "would be a shame if the garbage truck comes" and "hope no hobo digs in there" but you went for the "blind" route instead and to that, I say: mask or no mask, that dude won't see the cam or a Shih tzu in the trash bin because he will NOT even look there in the first place. (As long as the Shih tzu stays quiet of course)

So, I think I addressed every point you brought up. If it's as you said and you actually read, reread and reread again (Wow! 3 times. 3 fucking times lol) then with all those mistakes you wrote above, I'm a bit worried if you actually wrote a book. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and believe that you did this calmly and patiently(lol) but it can't be denied that you didn't read critically. I don't know if it's your reading comprehension that needs improving or you stubbornly refusing to understand the scenes and dialogue presented in the story. Like that history one. I can't believe you tried to say that "Teresa speaks as if the spear was the reason for the first crusade". You even gave false tidbits of info regarding the siege of Antioch after saying Teresa is teaching wrong things. Ironic and truly heartbreaking.

the mistakes don't stop there, there's a lot of shit ahead

Of all the things you brought up, the wiretap in bloodstream is the only thing I agree with. Dev could've just made it a subdermal implant injected in the area around the rhomboid minor and the levator scapulae and it'll be significantly less dangerous vs in the bloodstream. But even then, with all the quick healing and invisibility and actual monsters, this is clearly something scifi/fantasy stuff at play here. It may be lazy writing but it still works and makes sense.

With all your talk of being someone who likes to read and write, I wish you the best. I don't know much about writing but I'm certain that you can still improve on your reading. Maybe you just honestly misunderstood some sentences given that English is not your first language but that's even more reason to think your words through before saying that you understand everything. The history "mistakes(lol)" you said above is what convinced me that I'm dealing with someone who ignores the context of the dialogue and twists it to fit his case. And frankly, I think they can't be reasoned with. Goodbye.

P.S.

I could write a book on how not to be a detective using this MC as an example

I doubt it(lmao) but, if you do, let me know so I can read it. I do crave a tearjerker every once in a while.

itch.io

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