Post by Vince Trust in Tea For God comments

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How about some crawling passages? So small narrow and winding passages (ventilation shafts) at ground level? For people who are even fatter than me, you could do this optionally or adjust the height: So 40 cm/crawl on all four or 100 cm simply crouching movement. Without controller movement this is certainly very immersive, exhausting and funny :-)

By the way: I'm still of the opinion that your game lacks a little challenging gameplay. So I do tasks like looking for keys or something like that. Otherwise I find the progress so far really good. Keep up the good work!

void room5 years ago

You know what, we should try it! I will add a crouching section and see if people like it. I will add an option to switch it off.

As for the challenge, please give me some time ;) Earlier I wanted to add a very unique puzzle to each section but the game evolved into more open world. Though, I still want to add some puzzles and challenges. Keys are something pretty standard but I think that there is always some place to have them in game.

Vince Trust5 years ago

Nice of you to consider the idea of crawling. I'm looking forward to it, if it works! Had there still more stupid ideas: Small holes or ditches or holes with acid over which you really have to jump. Or movable laser barriers on the ground that you have to jump over. For this the game would have to calibrate the average HMD height while playing. What I also like very much is the maze with the many movable elevators above the gorge. One could also do such a part with independently movable platforms without railings. If you don't timed the crossing to the next platform correctly, you fall into the canyon and die. An idea for the key search: You could discover random numbers on walls or ceilings in the level. Somewhere there is a door with a code lock where you have to enter all numbers in unimportant order to get to the next area. For this you wouldn't even need an inventory system.

void room5 years ago

The jumping wouldn't be that easy to do. I mean it could work in maybe 90% of cases but if it wouldn't be detected, it could be frustrating. Especially when you were low on health. If I would make it less likely to treat something as a jump, you could stand on your tip toes and pretend you're flying all the time ;) This could be a bit fun, though. But still, these ideas can be done, but just turned around. Instead of jumping over them, duck below them. I actually want to have small holes in the walls with tentacles (or something like this) trying to grab you. So you have to stick to the other wall or try to shoot the thing.

Jumping from a platform to a platform could bring a bunch of new problems. To keep things calibrated to the play area, when platform moves, I disallow switching platform you're standing on - you can move around freely but for the game, you're anchored to the platform. The problem would be that you jumped, you think you landed, but the other platform already started to move and the game prevented you from landing. You would fall through the floor of platform that started to move. I wanted to avoid falling down but I will reconsider it. Detecting whether someone is leaning over or standing beyond the edge is possible. I would just need to tweak it to make it more likely to consider that the player is leaning. To allow standing on the edge etc.

There is one thing that I like about that key thing. Memorisation. Although because you have to choose from a fine set - numbers to be precise - it can be solved with a brute force approach. But this could be done in a different manner. You have to find some strange, alien like characters, icons, signs, something like that. In the level, just as you described. Then, at some point you have a board with all those characters, and others. If you press the right one, it just lights up. If you press the wrong one, you are damaged. This way you could scale the difficulty of the puzzle. Not only by having a different number of signs, but you may also have a larger board of signs to choose from. (or I could just add alphabet to the numbers, at least for the prototype). So, yeah, I like the idea and I will add that to the list :) Thanks :)

Vince Trust5 years ago (2 edits)

You're probably right about jumping, you could certainly cheat by standing on your toes. I just tried that, though: When I jump, I get about 15 cm higher than I would do with tiptoes. Of course it's exhausting! The normal HMD height would of course have to be calibrated quite accurately (automatically or manually). Ducking would of course be much easier to realize, we know this from a lot of VR games where you have to avoid some traps.

The problem with the platforms is almost too complicated for me, I can't think of anything. You know your engine better and know what is possible and what is not. Just by the way: I didn't mean jumping from platform to platform, but just walking or jumping slightly. Just like you do with elevator platforms. You can also fix a kind of pole in the middle of the platform in the ground (about 1 m high) to which you have to hold on, otherwise you are not anchored and the platform continues without you with an unsightly result for you.

The idea with the alien letters is not bad, but I know from experience that you can remember something like this only badly because it is too abstract. Letters would be better, maybe just a short anagram. What would work as well would be alien symbols and a virtual notepad where you can note down the symbols. I have already seen something like this in some VR puzzle game. If you could build such a Stargate with a dial, it would fit well into the concept of impossible corridors. :-D

void room5 years ago

But if you run and jump, the head does not move so high. I don't know if there is a 100% reliable way to detect jumping by tracing just head and arms. But the traps requiring ducking are on the list.

The jumping/going between platforms... I will have to think about it. I still have some other issues to solve, for example walking through walls. On a similar note there is walking over the edges. Falling down will be an uncomfortable experience. Having it in game, could add tension. Although people get nervous in higher places anyway.

I don't want to have completely abstract symbols that would be hard to remember. But having circles, triangles, combinations of them, reinforced by colour, should be easy to remember. I'd rather avoid letters (mostly because of the lore).

Vince Trust5 years ago

Yes, most people get nervous at high altitudes but in VR you get used to it very quickly. I'm afraid of heights in RL but in VR I don't mind falling down from very high altitudes. Somehow this is even fun. You could also lower the fall speed for people who are afraid of heights.

Have you solved the problem with the walls yet? If you touch the walls with the Hitbox from a certain percentage, a certain amount of energy would be drawn off (with visual and audio indication). If the hitbox touches a wall with more than 50 percent, you die.

Still have some strange ideas:
How about a chase mode? A robot you can't kill follows you from the beginning. When it reaches the player, you lose.

Due to the special way of moving in this game, it is not possible to move the game area (unless you are in an elevator). But it should work upwards or downwards. For example, you could make stairs or ramps in the game that move upwards or downwards as long as you walk on them and move. So you almost have the feeling to walk up a real ramp/staircase. So far there are only the elevators to switch between the different floors. Ladders would also be possible. When pulling up and holding with the hands only the height of the playing field shifts. For that you would have to deactivate the falling down of course so that you can leave the area of the ladder when you reach the top.

void room5 years ago

I have the same. In RL I am afraid of heights. In VR I'm fine. But I know a few people who are afraid in both VR and RL.
I haven't done anything on going through walls yet. I don't know if punishing by inflicting damage is fine. Not without any warning. I am rather thinking about pausing game and forcing the player to move to the right spot.
Chase mode is on my list. Someone had the idea of going really fast through the level. You would be either running away from an invincible enemy or a bomb going to detonate or something else.
Going up or going down while walking on a flat surface doesn't work that well (at least it didn't feel ok last time I tried it). First, you expect that the ground will be a bit higher or a bit lower. To be honest, I can't decide which one of these two is worse. And then you have the vertical motion. The worst is that I really would like to have such going up or down as it adds a lot to the levels.

Vince Trust5 years ago (2 edits)

In the RL, no warns me before I run into walls. The pain is a good indicator that I did something wrong. :-D

I've already written that you get an optical (picture gets a red frame) or an acoustic warning (for example a sound like an electric shock). A solution of course would be to make everything black as long as you don't return to the starting point. The game Budget Cuts does this quite cleverly by fading out almost all details and turning everything green. Spying doesn't work with it: (This can only be seen for a short time, I have not found a longer example.)

https://tinyurl.com/y6faug4w

Too bad that the stairs / ramps don't work. I would like to try that.
BTW: I found the video here where someone plays TFG in a very big playspace, if you don't already know that:

void room5 years ago

But if you walk slowly backward, you just touch the wall. It doesn't kick you if you push it too hard ;) I will have to try different things and see what works best.

Yeah, I've seen it and talked to him :) He wanted to try 4,6x4,6 (this is the space he has) but SteamVR limits space to 4x4m with lighthouse 1.0. Even if it tracks outside that space.

I am uploading a build and probably tomorrow in the morning I will publish it. There is a crouching section. Check options/play area, there is crouching and select "allowed". With auto it works only if tile size is big enough.

Ian_B5 years ago

This is how I would detect jumps: I am NOT a vr dev but it's clear that the controllers and headset have motion sensors in them so.... let people jump and when they land you check if the motion sensor captured free fall movement before that. If it did, you register this as a legit jump and they crossed the gap. If they didn't they actually walked over lava/acid and need to take damage or whatever. I know this brings in a delay that ruins immersion a bit when you don't jump but the player that actually jumps will just cross the gap. Idk this just crossed my mind and I thought i'd share it. Cool stuff!

void room5 years ago

It really depends on the headset, but I think that most of current ones don't have a motion sensor, they are just located using either lighthouses, sensors or cameras. But you could still get the velocity from that. The bigger problem is that delay introduced and possible false positives and true negatives and that may lead to player's frustration. While I have lots of things that I want to add to the game, I will have to drop some ideas or at least leave them until an update.

itch.io

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