Post by Alliebutt in Cursed Covenant : The Demonic Pursuit comments

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Hey there! As someone who played Oathbreaker back when the first one was still in development, I was excited when I got the email about you releasing this.

I'm curious though, so I figured I'd ask my question. You give the player the choice of pronoun as well as body and voice, but will there be a point in the game where those things will matter if there's a 'mismatch' so to speak? It's obviously a high fantasy setting with fairly strong and sophisticated magic, so would the player have the option to later change their body if their pronouns hint at the protag being trans? Say using female pronouns, but having a male body?

It's cool that the option to pick the body and pronoun is even there don't get me wrong, but as a trans woman, if I were to play as a trans woman in the game, (I.e having a female pronoun but male body/voice) not being able to change those attributes would only remind me of the situation I deal with on a daily basis, which when playing a game isn't all that amazing when I play to forget about the real world for a few hours. So if changing the body, etc. Isn't an option later in the game, then I just need to know so I can just pick the female body/voice and forget about being trans at all.

I just feel like that would be a waste of potential though if that makes sense? It's cool the option to be trans is there, but all I'm asking from the perspective of a trans woman is, does that option being there even matter a whole lot if there's no way for the player to actually 'transition' as it was later on? I'm sure some trans people would be cool without it, and can roleplay as being trans in a setting where making changes can't happen sorta like it was in the past in real life, but I know for a fact that a lot of trans people would be turned off by the option if there was no way to impact things later on since as I said was my case, it'll only remind them of their real life situation.

Sorry if this was a bit of a ramble, and if it doesn't make a ton of sense x3 I just sorta had to get my thoughts out, and figured I'd leave a comment with my thoughts on the matter :3

Edit: This is general input, but I feel like chapter 1 would be better off starting when you wake up after having slept. It feels like a more organic place to well, place the cut between the prologue and chapter 1. That's down to creative opinion though. It's just where I would personally put the cut, that doesn't mean my opinion is the right one. It comes down entirely to what the dev prefer.

Nenne Catgirl1 year ago(+21)(-3)

It's about the story the author wants to tell, like if the main character is to transition then they have to incorporate that in the story, and frankly it's not going to feel right if it's just some small thing like that can't pop up and then be brushed off if you understand what I'm saying. Like the more you think about it the more you realize how much effort is required to actually pull it off, especially if it wasn't planned.

Alliebutt1 year ago(+12)(-26)

By your logic, what then was the point even of adding the option? As I said, most trans people would rather play as a cis protagonist, than play as a trans protagonist that is still permanently in the same body as their own biological sex. Sure there might be some outliers that would play that way, but the vast majority wouldn't.

So based on what you're saying, is the dev then virtue signaling by adding a 'trans' option that everyone knows barely any actual trans people would use? I'm genuinely curious what you think since everyone seems to have enjoyed downvoting my genuine and most importantly non-hostile question to the developer, while yours have gotten plenty of likes. I'll bet everyone that disliked mine aren't actually trans, and are just salty cis people that don't want to even talk about trans people existing. They probably didn't even take a second to try and think through what I said in good faith. They just saw trans and disliked, lmao.

At the end of the day, I asked a genuine question to the dev. I didn't give them hate, I didn't throw slurs at them, I was respectful and non confrontational. So why else would people dislike my comment outside of being because they didn't want to hear anything about trans identities?

AkiThePotatoMaster1 year ago(-6)

sure they are toxic there xd

Nenne Catgirl1 year ago(+10)

I mean identity is complex, again the game did not need to add the ability of mix matching the voices with the bodies and the pronouns, but it did. I doubt it was hard, but they went out of their way to do that. Most porn games don't let you play anything more than a low opacity faceless brown/black (or godforbid blonde) haired white guy with a horse cock. Anyway I've said all I need to say on this but I'll repeat myself in hopes of clarity: It's not really reasonable to ask the developers for transitioning in this game cause that would take a lot of writing and editing and totally divert a story that ultimately looks like it will either be short or not have time for that, honestly if you were to do it right it would have to be the focus of the game.

I want to be a little optimistic about human beings (atleast on itch) and say they simply just didn't like the idea. And no one said anything about you saying slurs or said transphobic slurs to you (not that that is the only way to be transphobic) you gave a suggestion and then people rated that suggestion (they did not like it)

Though if you'd like to suggest genuinely good trans representation: mixing the genitals with the bodies is something a lot of games have done and worked really well. "What's the point?" well like you said a small minority would like that so we give them that, and then nonbinary people (which exist) can enjoy their pronouns and custom bodies and everyone else can still enjoy the gender of our choice. It's not like they explicitly say you're playing the cis option because gender is not important to the story and because it isn't the cis option it's the female option cis or not. I hope I didn't miss your point and go off on a tangent you weren't even upset about and hopefully I cleared shit up. Also it sounds kind of like you're implying this is shallow representation which like yeah it is, because it's the best they can do with a game that has no story revolving being trans-- anyway kindness or some shit byee.

LarkyLabs1 year ago(+20)(-2)

Hi Allie,

Honestly the reason why the voice & the body option being separate was entirely a technical thing.
We started the development of this game with only a one-off type of very short nsfw game in mind, where we could only hear the main character's voice and not see their body.
Later on, because we loved the story so much, we decided to add the full body option & make this a larger game with a main storyline.
So, the body option was added much later as a separate variable to voice & pronouns.
I think one of the screenshots still have the previous version of the character creation screen, which should give you the idea.

That being said, you did rise a very interesting question and as we are still early in development it's completely possible for me to create a transition route as you worded it.
I guess my only hesitation would be that as a side plot, can it be as impactful as you suggested? Because the last thing I'd want to have is to brush the subject off with a simple "Ta da! Now you have a different voice. Anyways, where were we?"

I have a very clear main storyline in my mind and I don't wish to steer off course, but you are right about this option having a really nice potential for enriching the story.
I don't want to promise more than I can deliver, but I can promise you that this is something that I'll definitely be actively thinking about as I continue writing. At the very least, thank you for telling me your side of the situation.
I hope I can deliver a story that'll be soothing & exciting at the same time for many people! 💖

Alliebutt1 year ago(+11)(-16)

Glad to have at least brought thoughts on the matter to mind, and I do wholly agree that it's better to leave it out altogether than to just brush over it as if it isn't something important. Admittedly it doesn't have to be a whole massive thing, as long as it isn't just glossed over, because at the end of the day, being trans isn't our entire personality, haha.

And I do absolutely understand if it isn't something that'll make it into the game, because it's totally a big ask. Either way, I'm definitely looking forward to playing more of the game as it's released! As it stands, I don't mind playing as a cis female protagonist. So I'm confident I'll enjoy everything the new story has in store for us! ❤️

dir4rta1 year ago(+6)(-6)

Just want to let you know: I'm a cis straight guy and this entire thread has been very insightful to me. I'd never have considered the idea that male body/voice with female pronouns or vice-versa could be more hurtful/triggering than just only have cis body/voice/pronoun options

Alliebutt1 year ago(+5)(-10)

I'm glad it's been insightful! At the end of the day, my original post was primarily to offer insight based on how I personally experienced the situation as a trans woman. The fact that it also gave me the chance to make a suggestion to the developer as well, was just a wonderful case of feeding two birds with one scone, haha.

It's something most cis people just don't even consider, which is entirely fair! I can't blame cis people for not consciously thinking about how trans people view the world around them. Expecting that would be just as unfair as expecting non-blind people to actively think about the way blind people experience the world around them. Granted I'm not blind, so I obviously fall in the same category of not considering those things unless I'm actively given a reason to consider them.

And as the developer themselves said, they hadn't really put a lot of thought into the body/voice and pronoun situation themselves, as those things were initially added for the sake of development if I recall their post correctly. So the fact that those elements of the game can now potentially be used to tell a minor story of their own, that's just a happy coincidence born from me broaching the subject in my initial post.

SweetHurt1 year ago (2 edits) (+16)(-18)

This story is not about becoming a trans! This project is about the story and idea the author wants to share. I'm sorry to break it to you but the world doesn't revolve around your trans issues so that the author tailors his story just to suit you. You didn’t even think about the fact that the author of the project might not know the medical and most importantly psychological details of gender transition, or that the author might simply be uncomfortable writing about it in their story.

Try to be considerate not only of yourself.

Alliebutt1 year ago(+9)(-20)

Ahh, as if the developer hadn't already replied to me, saying that it was something they hadn't thought about, but would consider adding assuming they could do it justice without taking anything away from that plot, or the main plot of the game. But hey, good on you for showing that you're a bigot by immediately reacting hostile to the simple idea of adding the OPTIONAL choice of having a trans protagonist. Enjoy being reported.

SweetHurt1 year ago (1 edit) (+11)(-17)

I couldn't care less about your reports, lol))
I'm reacting to you pressuring the artist. I'm not against a transgender protagonist, I'm against the author changing their story under pressure. You write long messages trying to convince the author to add a scene to the story that was not originally planned. You want to adapt the plot to suit yourself so much, that you forget that this is actually another person's story that they want to tell.

LarkyLabs1 year ago (1 edit) (+15)(-2)

Hey Sweethurt,
In early development in any story it's very much possible to adapt to new information & make alterations if you feel it alignes with your draft/idea.
I'm not under any pressure or feel threatened in anyway, much less a comment that was very kind & informative.
I don't believe backing down from new ideas & opinions because of fear is creative. Creative process can be uncomfortable and push you in the direction that is outside of your comfort zone if it alignes with what you want to achieve and the story that you want to tell.
There was nothing forceful about Allie's question and it really surprises me the amount of backlash she receives for simply asking me a question that many people here seem to feel outside of their comfort zone.
There really is no need for all this hostility in my account or my story.
I am really thankful for everybody's care for my little demo but I have full confidence in my work and myself as a dev to be able to create what I want to create while adapting to possible new features & story elements without taking away from anybody else's enjoyment while also letting a whole lot of people experience this game in a much more comfortable way.
I have no fear to give something a go even if I feel I may not be the best person to do it, as long as I do it honestly.
Like I said, I hope what I end up creating will be fun and comfortable to a lot of people! 💖 Let's just all stay calm and wait until I release the full game to see whether or not I will truly make something subpar because of what many people here assume to be pressure. 😊

itch.io

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