Roswell 18, Dave and Orlando 19, Hoss 20, Tyson 21, Dean and Sal I think are 23 and 24.
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A member registered Aug 16, 2020
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Different circumstances in the true end.
For one Dave is more confrontational about it and in a better mental state, directly asking how Tyson felt. Dave before had been too closed off to notice what Tyson was going through, or any of his friends really.
Second Tyson's defenses are lowered from the sedatives he's recovering from. It's mentioned he's lucid, but he's also tired from driving all night to the middle of nowhere and just waking up from being knocked out. The walls he keeps between them are paper thin at that point. Also he doesn't immediately say yes, there is that brief moment you can see him try to fight it before relenting and asking how long Dave has known. Even then, he seems sad or apologetic to admit it, like he's afraid of Dave's reaction.
It's not like those are new feelings either, Tyson has loved Dave for a long while and the denial on the mountain had a fair bit to do with his self worth issues along with being a way to push Dave away to someone better. All those negative feelings haven't had a chance to fester and take hold here. Dave in return already has love for Tyson, main game he's pretty much the first of the six Dave will start to question if he's in love with, plus all the new memories he's seeing of past lives along with that encouragement from Roswell clearing things up.
Heck, special mention to Roswell's line about seeing all the different iterations of the universe, but the one thing that never changes is how much Tyson loves Dave. With Dave having his own set of memories now probably showing him the same thing.
Things on path P line up to where feelings just get acknowledged and reciprocated in a cleaner way. After all they've gone through, and how deep we know those feelings run, it feels good they get that chance to just have that happy ending together on this new prime timeline and all future iterations of the universe.
This seems to have surprised more than a few people. It had been known for some time there would be a true ending boyfriend and that final choice for partner would be Dave's, not the player. So I guess that's why I went in expecting no choice there.
For me at least, I was really happy how it played out. For Dave's character and what's been established in story, it makes a lot of sense and honestly was cathartic to watch after all these years.
That sounds like a bug then. I just tried it with Tyson and got to path B, at least on the PC version. Unless it's only Dean's route that has that problem...
I can think of a couple things maybe? If you're on mobile, it might be a bug exclusive to that version. If the save file is old, that could cause issues as well.
It's cumbersome, but you could try downloading a previous version and using that to get on B. Then just update when you have the right save state. Outside of that I can't really think of a solution if the current update is bugged for you.
I only mention the rewrite because a touch up is apparently happening once the story is finished. I don't even think he needs that much of one. Mostly just getting more of his personality to shine through would be nice.
And realistically the one most likely to mess things up, at least on path B, is Tyson. His actions on C/D are what escalated everything to go to hell as quickly as it did. Because if I'm right about why he snuck into the forest... ugh, if he doesn't get killed Dave really should invest in that collar once they get home.
But yeah, Dean doing something courageous is the more likely scenario. Hopefully by saving someone.
I'm just so curious how B is going to end. I can see it being the path characters are about to die in comparison to A, I just hope it isn't as "kill em all" as C/D/E/G have been. Characters individually living or dying based on our choices instead of scripted has always been my dream mechanic.
It would certainly be... a choice to lock the best ending behind Dean's route. But I just don't think it'll play out that way.
As someone that spent basically the entirety of their time playing, convinced he would have some kind of heel turn. I'm just not seeing it. Not this close to the end. At some point we need to accept he's just a normal character that needs a rewrite to his route. Because right now his most notable moment is everyone else's day 19 when his romance subplot with Dave finally ends.
I think it's genre paranoia to not trust the character who's "just nice".
But to feed into my old suspicions, he still has moments that make me hesitate. That vision in the forest where he doesn't react right to Dave bloody while also armed with a gun. When Tyson finds Dave dying Dean is somewhere in the forest allegedly looking for Dave. He's intentionally left out when Thanatos goes through the list of who died after Dave does. Tyson is shot immediately, Orlando right after, Hoss, Roswell, Benson and Oswin all burn up in the fire with Sal maybe still being alive right outside. The fact on both path A and B his location is unknown at the "to be continued" point.
Thanatos even mentions that Dean has so far always been good on every timeline. But he also admits the group has never made it this far accompanied with the knowledge some of his memories have been deleted.
I don't see him working for Memphis. But I can see him breaking under the threat of death and abandoning the group. I believe Sal even mentions Dean and Tyson as the most likely to snap first. But with Tyson (who I'm personally worried wth he's up to on path B) he's at least loyal to Dave no matter what because that's all he has. Dean has a nice life outside of the mansion he'd probably want to get back to.
So, I have a bit of a theory to posit. It's about Dean.
But, something that might at least be entertaining to think about. It involves Dean being more than he appears to be, but a more positive spin on it versus the "Dean is secretly villain" theories I always see pop up.
Though, fair warning it's the definition of a crackpot theory so take none of this too seriously. Also, some story spoilers for various routes/paths/endings.
Simply put, Dean is from a rival family in opposition to Memphis' mafia. It's mentioned during his bad ending that he comes from a massive family of bears. What if that's a separate mafia family? David, knowing he's about to die calls in a favor to Dean's family. Mama bear agrees and after David's death, sends one of her sons to watch after Dave. He comes into Dave's life not long after David dies, in a way similar to a romance movie. What if that was planned? The reason he acts the way he does in the beginning of his route? He's simply playing the role of the Casanova he feels he's supposed to. Notice that the act drops around day 10 when he realizes just how fragile Dave's mental state is and that the flirty thing wasn't what Dave needed. This is also when he starts developing deeper feelings for Dave.
On Tyson and Orlando's route, he handles the date and breakup well. Realizing that Dave's feelings were elsewhere and maybe it's for the best in terms of Dave being happy. He's blindsided on the other three though, his mission is in jeopardy at that point and he'd started to have feelings for Dave.
Dean is far from the flirty, dumb, himbo people treat him as. He's smart, cunning, and capable with maybe the highest skillset in the group. He's calm under the stressful situations we've seen him in (path F and G) with C and D obviously lacking data. He's shown handling Oswin's revolver in the title art and chooses the close quarters fire axe as his weapon of choice in path F and G, so he can apparently fight. He never really directly involves himself in the group planning sessions, choosing to stay back and observe mainly. Look how often he's keeping watch over the group in the background. Think back to his behavior during some of the bad endings. In Roswell's, look how quickly he wants to get Dave away from that situation. The only ending he doesn't in some way stay with Dave is Roswell's (and his own of course) where Dave is under Tyson's care and they both leave the area, away from Memphis' influence.
For this, I'd include Dom as potentially being from the same "family", but undercover. The sheer fact a "Bad Ending: Dom" exists, means the guy has a good ending somehow.
Here's a slightly more recent post as well.
https://www.patreon.com/posts/development-48736249
In that post you can see Dean and Roswell's new look and early sketches of the others. (Though each of them have progressed a lot since then, pretty sure Tyson is finished and the others as well by this point). All the guys will have eye color, various poses and expressions. The new title screens and recent cgs show off their final designs pretty well also.
And honestly, I think it'll just be an adjustment since we're used to the way the characters look after all this time. But I like the newer ones more at this point. Tyson for example isn't as wide as Dean or so fluffy now which fits how he's described in game better. Thin, unapproachable, and scruffy.
You can still use the password on Tyson's route for day 17. The investigation will happen and you get the prompt to enter a password like would happen with any other route. You can get the CG and everything.
The difference is, when the other routes shift into F or G at the end of day 19, Tyson's won't. By being on his route, even if you get the password wrong, Dave will stop anything bad from happening naturally through the story. You're pretty much dealing with the problem directly since he's your partner whereas you ignore him on the other routes. Affection level doesn't matter either, that has no impact on the main story (so be nice to him).
Really all it should take to be on path F or G is not use the password on day 17 and be on anyone but Tyson's route. You're technically on F/G the moment the password isn't entered, but the game will show as A/B until day 20. Since, ya know, Dave doesn't find out until then that he's on a bad timeline.
I think our scope was limited in just considering the rat body when Thanatos is more than that.
Because yeah, if someone truly has ThanatosxDave as their favorite they could write Thanatos into any robotic form they wanted. I've jokingly thought about putting him into an Alexa type thing or going full Shodan. But I guess he could be put into whatever if it's the realm of fanfiction?
Really the only part that made an eyebrow raise was that I hadn't even considered Thanatos as an option. One of my first exposures to the community was original Morenatsu where TappeixTatsuki was one of the most popular ships and original Lagoon Lounge. I figured I couldn't be surprised anymore after a decade but I suppose we never stop learning.
And it's true, Thanatos does have the whole power dynamic thing to work with. Plus he at least seems to like Dave in some way so he has an edge on the mafia pairings there. Though I suppose Jack "likes" Dave too, I just prefer the latter not being harmed. Still, Thanatos will just be one of those "But why though?" moments I guess.
But yeah, to each their own. If someone wants to write a lengthy fic about Dave and David being lonely because Tyson is dead and Carol left, go for it, I won't judge. Questions maybe, but no judge. It's a story with multiple timelines so that really does leave anything open to possibility in terms of fanfic/art. Which is a thing I like. If you can think/imagine it, maybe it happened at least once in some far flung past.
The heavy burden of being the cute MC in a VN. Shipped with everyone.
And I... won't. But from what I've read/seen it's at least nicer than the Memphis or Jack ships? Since Dave isn't getting hurt or killed in the process.
Also, probably indicative I've been playing VNs for too long that ThanatosxDave raised more of an eyebrow to me than DavidxDave.
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At least speaking in terms of the core 6, I've always found Dean the most suspicious. Of being the traitor I mean, not the mastermind since I think they're different characters. The mastermind, Thanatos' true master, I assume hasn't even been alive for who knows how many iterations at this point.
But I'll agree that Orlando has been raising a few more flags lately. My entire reason for never really suspecting him was that he was "too nice" to have anything darker going on. But that's a poor reason in the end, it just means he's unassuming.
Do I think he's bad? No. But do I think he'd do anything to keep Dave safe? Yes. Including a deal with his dad, even if that deal doesn't include any of the others. Sal even brings up the possibility of Orlando trying that.
Think to all the bad endings we've gotten so far too. In each of them, Orlando seems to disappear (I assume dead) or outright die. Except for one. In Dean's bad ending, Orlando gets to run his dream bakery far away. His dad outright hates him, but for some reason lets that happen? After the trial over Dean's death as well. But why? Did Orlando do something to earn that?
I'm just excited. We're getting to the point in the story that all the revelations will start being uncovered. Really looking forward to the moments of "Oh my god that's what that meant!" or the far more abundant "Wow I was so off base here."
Seeing Tyson get reduced to only being liked for fetish reasons or a shallow trope feels like a disservice to such a well written character. So I'd like to try and give at least my reason for liking the wolf. Admittedly, I'm neutral towards Roswell and the whole doesn't like Tyson thing never bothered me, so I can't speak from an "anti-Roswell" stance on it. To me, he had valid reasons for the dislike and since he basically drops it past day 9, I think it's moot to hold against him. I feel there are more reasons for being indifferent towards Roswell with Tyson being the easiest scapegoat his fans normally use.
But now, as for liking Tyson. It's a lot of reasons but I'll try to keep it concise (and not simp). His backstory, personal struggles, even dealing with his sexuality, make him the most "relatable" or real member of the cast to me. Him feeling like there's something wrong or broken about himself for instance, it's relatable. His rationalizations sadly make sense and it's always made him the most fascinating character to interact with because of it. The double meaning in his words, or finding the truth of what he's trying to say.
There's his complicated/messy feelings for Dave which for me, makes his the most satisfying route to play. He's someone that doesn't believe he deserves to even be loved, having him finally confess his feelings on day 19 and Dave reciprocating is the most cathartic moment in any route so far. I get that Dean is supposed to be the romance route, but Tyson just naturally fits that role better for me. He's the only one I've noticed Dave initiating affection with past that day as well, even if it's just little acts of a small kiss or something. I'm a sucker for those little tender moments. He easily has the lowest lows yet the highest highs, and most of the moments that actively make me tear up. His admission on day 15 in particular will still break me just imagining that whimper. It wasn't surprising, since the evidence is there if you pay attention, but it was still something I hoped wouldn't have been true.
I could go on, and even now I'm thinking of all the things I haven't mentioned. But I don't want to write an entire dissertation on him. Just know there are reasons to like Tyson beyond a shallow glance at surface level. More reasons than I listed that make him one of my favorite characters in any piece of media. Not just VNs. To me, he's not just "the gay bully character" and frankly by the time the story starts hasn't been for a while. He's not just another "my wolf" clone either, I've no strong species preference to cloud my opinion. Tyson is a complex, very imperfect but redeemable, realistically written character, that has always just been more sad and tragic than anything. Someone that needs patience and love, but has that genuine desire to improve himself. Which I really want to see happen.
The people that fetishize him? Or think his negative traits or red flags are "hot"? In many cases, it seems like they either skim through his route or just ignore the idea of growth or redemption his route has always carried. The unfortunate truth is that they more or less would prefer Tyson's father instead of Tyson. Which if you've played his route, you know how sad that really is.
I've just been viewing it as an amalgam of countries or it's own place, vague enough you can have it wherever. Ausmerope or something like that.
For me it fits North America's eastern side. Dense secluded mountainous forests you can get lost in and die pretty easily. Coastal adjacent so that the beach is a reasonable day trip. All four seasons with cold winters (enough to freeze in) and hot summers. And yeah... Hoss' backstory.
Spoilers for the current build... Also wild guessing that might be laughably wrong in a few updates.
There's a moment in the current public build that really solidified my distrust of Dean. The reaction in Dave's vision being so... empty. If you find your friend bloody, wounded, and maybe dying, why would he have no reaction. Then, Jack lets Dave make it to Dean in that vision and is laughing about it. All that scene was lacking was Dean raising the gun and laughing at Dave. Of everything in that day, that is what unsettled me the most and I haven't forgotten.
He got cleared of being Thanatos' master too easily as well, the bear isn't dumb. I'm not calling him the "mastermind" behind the whole thing, or that he's responsible for any of the deaths, but I just don't trust him at all. Roswell and Hoss are too obviously set up to be suspicious, Tyson and Sal are both used as weapons, Orlando is Orlando. That leaves Dean amongst the main group. The one that has the weakest connection to Dave overall and who seems to have just invited himself to the mansion (the implication is that Orlando invited him, but I remember Orlando being confused when that gets mentioned as a possibility). The one we've already caught interacting with Thanatos once who knows enough about robotics to apparently repair him (who also apparently survives a "timeline with Memphis" whatever that entails). When Thanatos sound blasts Roswell, Hoss, and Dave on path F/G, he speaks to someone watching through the surveillance system. The only ones unaccounted for at that time are Sal, Benson and Dean. Then there's who exactly Thanatos is referring to on path D when he mentions his "master" being killed. Even his initial death feels different compared to the others. There's also Orlando's vision that still hasn't had a chance to happen. He sees a bear who he thinks is Dean laughing at Dave's body. With Dom in the picture now, it'd be easy to assume it's just him and Orlando got confused. But it really could be Dean.
In the two years I've played this game, he's consistently sat wrong with me whereas the others I've either grown to like through playing their routes or just naturally did from the bus stop. When you compare him to the other 5 routes, he's even more out of place. Dean stands out precisely because he doesn't at all. Almost like he's designed to be intentionally unassuming and normal, so the player "falls" for his charms and never suspects him of wrongdoing.
I'm probably going to feel really dumb in a few updates, but I'm sticking with my gut instinct here.
Minor spoilers for the pat. build.
And yeah, it seems to be setting up choosing who to send into the forest.
Hopefully whatever Thanatos is about to show Dave will give some kind of help or hint because I really don't want to lose anyone. Though path B is quickly escalating to not be considered "good" by any stretch of the word. The way Tyson's ends is very much framed as a... last moment together. Really hope I'm wrong.
Spoilers just to be safe:
I'd consider that to just be an intended flaw of Dave's that he's too passive. But gets less so as the story goes on and you work through his character arc, especially once you get past day 14.
As for that scene. I don't think he was really expecting Orlando to punch Tyson and seemed a little stunned by it. I mean I wasn't at least. Even then, I don't think that was the time to get defensive over Tyson. The guy deserved some consequence over what he did. Jumping in there would have came off as blindly defending him even when he's in the wrong.
Like as much as he's my favorite character, route, and has my favorite romance, the dude earned that particular L.
Any other time though? Dave better defend his boyfriend. No more abandoning them to fight a killer rabbit alone.
Are you doing Tyson's route by chance? You can't get to the new bad timeline with him if so, you'll stop at day 20 A/B with this update.
If you're on someone else's and can't reach day 21 path F/G, outside of redownloading the update or trying a new save file I don't know. Not inputting the password on day 17 should always lead to it.
Just bringing Orlando up to match Tyson and Dean's day should fix things with his 19 since it's basically there already. Just a little more before or after the fade to black I think, maybe more of how Dave feels physically, mentally, etc?
As for Hoss, maybe it is a bit of a pacing issue. Just, it feels a little too sudden. So maybe more of a buffer after "let's try dating" would help make it feel less...fast paced.
And Roswell and Sal? I didn't mention them because both of their routes I have no real problems with. I think they have two of the more solid ones overall and their finales fit each of them just right.
Personally I don't mind a bit of fluff. I'd imagine if someone's playing the romance route they wouldn't mind it either. But of course I can't speak for everyone.
And outside of Tyson's aftermath scene benefiting from the little affection licking, and maybe Orlando needing something as well, I think the others are all generally good as is.
I have a little to add here if that's alright.
To the people that need explicit sex scenes to have a good finale, I don't know if there is a compromise to ever be had. The fade to black parts were already that nice middle ground I thought. Heck even that was more than I expected since all I had hoped for from Tysons route was that "I love you" moment with Dave and maybe an awkward kiss. Both of which were delivered on (and then some).
I guess if I had to add anything, since I'm overall satisfied with what we do have, maybe just more dialogue or descriptions in some places would be nice. Orlando and Hoss could both do with a bit more because as it is both of their scenes kind of just happen and it's suddenly over whereas Dean and Tyson have that little bit extra.
This sort of applies to each route overall as well, not just day 19, that more dialogue could be added to flesh out everyone's relationship with Dave just that little bit more.
As an example, my favorite part in that pdf was probably Tyson licking Dave affectionately at the end. It was cute and overall a minor thing, but even something that minor stuck with me.
That story actually had a lot I wish was in the game itself. And I don't mean the sexual more explicit parts, I think it's that we get to see them interact for a bit longer and it just felt more natural. Like, it really felt like they loved each other then and it was... well, nice.
So the whole true ending thing in the patreon post has me wondering a bit. Namely if it'll be in it's own separate timeline or will every route inevitably lead to it.
I guess I'm just curious if we'll get character endings where Dave gets that happy ending with the route partner now. Or if it will even matter if 5/6 always have the lingering smell of "it doesn't work out" hanging over them.
And I get the game has never been a dating sim with the mystery being the true focus. Just... idk, it'll be sad if the romance parts are meaningless to care about outside one route.
On day 10, pay attention to the conversation with Benson/Roswell towards the end of the day. Like with the other passwords Dave will notice when a word stands out.
The clue is thinking what the worst thing that could happen is, and if you've been down C/D you already know what exactly happens that night.
There's a fair bit in that lead up conversation you can ask about to start like his background, life, or interests. Just make sure you phrase stuff in the form of a question. "Do you know about x", "what do you think about x", "can you tell me about x", etc. There's nothing you need to ask about to proceed or anything that changes the story drastically. It's all background lore or easter egg stuff.
For spoilers sake if you wanted to find them yourself stop here. But if you wanted more direct things to ask...
So far I've found around 50 questions he'll respond to and apparently there's more than that.
Some good questions that I always like to ask if I'm doing a playthrough: "who is marked for death" is a good one, asking about the forest or what's in it have some unfortunate hints about future events, you can ask about his family, asking "What do you think of x" the only character he'll have a unique response to is Roswell. You can ask about the medals to find out just how many there are to find.
Finally, the only ones I've found that changes dialogue or effects the story so far.
"Do you like rabbits?"
"Can you tell me a story?"
It adds a small bit of dialogue to Tysons day 10 and for every route adds something extra to day 13.
And I always finish the interview off with "Can I thank you?"
The password is given to you during his bad ending. If I remember right, the word gets repeated at least a couple of times towards the end.
So just look for a word that sticks out, or pay attention to Dave since he'll point them out in some way. And a good rule to follow is don't look too hard, most of them are just hidden in plain sight if you're not skipping dialogue.