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Abuse

A topic by Cyclopropane created Feb 01, 2022 Views: 878 Replies: 13
Viewing posts 1 to 5
(+3)

I realize this is an uncomfortable question and line of thought, but it's been on my mind for some time. 

Readers know that Asterion has been abused for thousands of years in all manners of different and cruel ways, many of which are described in the ruthless route storyline or alluded to in the main storyline. One of the other threads here mentioned a desire to see Asterion have access to some form of psychological therapy, to help him through his many awful experiences, and possible PTSD. One comment in particular on that thread stood out to me, and has been an uncomfortable thought in the back of my mind for a while. Has Asterion been sexually abused by any of the prior masters of the hotel, as a form of torture?

It's an uncomfortable thought, but not without a trail of reasoning behind it. We learn in the story that due to one of the many past contracts, Asterion can not 'fraternize' and be publicly nude with guests, although there is likely a loophole for the master. Was this contract created by one of the many masters after learning about possible past abuse towards Asterion, and was made as a way to attempt to limit its likelihood of occuring again in the future? Now I know what you may thinking, well a contract like that shouldn't be able to manifest into existence after all the purpose of the labyrinth is to torture Asterion and it won't allow contracts that go against that to be created and enforced. However, the contract (from what little we know about it) seems to imply this 'fraternization' only applies to guests, not the current master, so the labyrinth would likely allow it, as technically a master could continue the abuse personally.

So, back to the main question. Is this contract a result of past masters sexually abusing Asterion? We know that previous masters have done every cruel thing imaginable to Asterion because they see him as less than human, and what could be more dehumanizing and cruelly evil than sexual abuse and degradation? 

The reason I bring this awful question up at all is because the unfortunate reality for many LGBTQ+ people, is that they either have experienced or know someone who has experienced some form of sexual abuse. Sexual abuse towards members of our community is shockingly common, and in some places almost perceived as 'normal'. Part of the reason the Devs created this game was because they wanted to create something that was solely focused on representing our community, because LGBTQ+ representation was almost non-existent in the gaming culture when many of us were younger (it's getting better, as evidenced by this game existing at all!)

While I don't entirely want to imagine Asterion having to go through any of those possible experiences, I think this might be a good place to include the topic of sexual abuse as it is something so many of us have dealt with personally. I don't think that something like this should be shied away from just because it's uncomfortable to discuss. 

What has made this game so engaging is how it gives voice to many of our community's common narratives, our shared experiences, the good and the bad. I can understand if the Devs don't want to touch this subject, because it's truly horrific, but I think it would resonate with many of us and would be something important to address.

(+1)(-1)

well, the question is if that is a matter best left unanswered. yes the master has more than enough power to do that, (i will admit that possibility  crossed my mind very early on the first build, given furry erotica dives pretty deep on fetishisation at times), but they also often despised him as a mere beast. in that sense while a master may not have had any regards from abusing Asterion, it is still possible the thought never crossed their minds. but it is also a very unconfortable topic that can easily backfire were it to be elaborated on, with that thought it may be for the best to leave it as a mere implication instead of actually saying it, as often is done with potentially triggering material that while it fits naturally with the story, people wouldn't necessarily be okay with seeing that play out at all. reading the comments around here should be pretty easy to find people who aren't willing to read the ruthless route for example, and that's  arguably tame if you ask me.

I'm not saying that the current master should abuse Asterion (definitely not), or that the Devs should give a detailed look into what that abuse entails (from previous masters, if it existed at all). I only wanted to address the possibility that it may have happened in the past, and if it has happened that it should at least be touched upon during the psychological therapy portions with Asterion (assuming they add that to the game, which I think they should).

I really don't want a graphic blow by blow depiction of any abuse towards Asterion, certainly not sexual abuse, but I think that (again IF it has occurred with past masters) it should be directly looked at during those therapy sessions. It seems unrealistic to just ignore what would undoubtedly be a very traumatic incident (or series of incidents) for Asterion, when the purpose of the therapy is to acknowledge the past forms of abuse enacted against him, and help him to move forward, and hopefully begin to heal some of his psychological trauma.

(-2)

and what i'm saying is that even the acknowledgement can be triggering if done wrong. take it from the new burrows vn for example, in which they play with the idea of the character having suicidal thoughts but avoid outright saying it, even if it's very much confirmed and integral to the plot.

Hmm, this would certainly be a very difficult topic to cover. I will reluctantly agree it should be mentioned somewhere, but I'm not sure how it could be done tastefully. You mentioned the therapy sessions, I'd agree that seems like a good place to put something like this. The dynamic between MC and Asterion would have to be quite strong for the two of them to talk about something like this. Although I suppose that's true of the two of them discussing any of Asterion's past trauma.

Perhaps the developers will just say 'Nope Asterion has never been sexually abused' and then we won't need to worry about this at all, and can just ignore it?

(+1)

I know that's something left to the Devs but just saying it didn't happen, or has never happened feels unrealistic and sort of like a cop out.... They've been willing and able to deal with a lot of really difficult subjects so far, so I don't see why they couldn't tackle this too.

I just hate the idea that something like this, something that a lot of people have experienced, could just be swept under the rug because it makes us uncomfortable. It should make us uncomfortable because it's awful, that's all the more reason to address it. 

like i stated above, this is best left unconfirmed in my opinion. i get the idea of discussing these topics could help bringing awareness, but for that it should have been a central theme of the story to begin with, it's too heavy a topic to be a minor bit on the side. i'm also not a fan of representation for the sake of representation, this is how we get token characters that are mere empty vessels and doing no justice to what they are meant to represent.

Developer(+9)

This is actually a topic we discussed very early on in development. Given everything Asterion has been put through, was he ever sexually abused? The Ruthless route gives a glimpse at the sort of stuff that can happen, and it's not pretty. By the sheer horror of what goes there (or by a Borgian mindset that given enough time everything that can happen will happen), one can certainly deem it "plausible."

As you put so well, it's an uncomfortable topic. It's a spiky question that can make it hard to enjoy some of the sweeter moments in the story. The doubt is bitter, isn't it?

Now, we are very deliberate with the things we say and how we say them... and we are equally deliberate with what we don't say. And the same goes for Asterion, who has thousands of years of experiences and only so much time, so many opportunities, to say things. And he knows that what he reveals about himself changes the way people see him. In fact, the mere choice to tell the MC about how the hotel works is world-defining, as it sets in motion so many of the things you can do in the story.

In fact, maybe it's worth stopping to think for a second just how much of what happens only happens because Asterion tells you things at the right time. Maybe people should reflect about what it means for Asterion to have created the hotel himself, then made it so the human master gets to be under the spotlight while he's the one defining its future across generations.

With that said, I will not answer the fundamental question of "Was Asterion ever sexually abused?" Whatever is the truth, whether there was any sort of abuse or not, to give an answer would make it too easy. Instead, as a reward for being so inquisitive, I will give you broader questions as a prize: what is Asterion not telling you? What goes on inside his head which you are not privy to? Sometimes you'll have a brief chance to glimpse what's on his mind, but just how much did you see? What is the mind of a man who's been through so much for thousands of years like? Can any person in a single lifetime learn all there is to know about a man like this?

And, to top it off... By my tone here, just by my acknowledging that this was a question we thought about early in development, someone could make the assumption that obviously it means that the answer is "yes, he was abused." But I'm not letting this hypothetical reader off the hook so easily. In truth, when you keep in mind all the questions I posed in the previous paragraph, I want you to be aware that the truth may just as well be "no, he wasn't abused" and we still have yet darker things in store. Maybe we considered sexual abuse too easy a topic. Or maybe we covered it elsewhere and you didn't notice.

You know, when you stop and think about it, the valley truly is a horrific place. And, worse yet, maybe these truly horrific things are already in the game, and you never noticed them! This goes down to the very way in which the world of Minotaur Hotel works — one can perform fully functional, world-changing rituals like Pedro and Oscar do without being even aware that they are doing it. Perhaps you, as you played the game and picked your decisions, performed rites without knowing — and just what effect did they have?

But is the valley even the darkest place in Minotaur Hotel?

I hope this message of mine did not answer your question. In fact it is my hope that it was both rewarding and uncomfortable for you to read it. However, I will congratulate for playing the game inquisitively, which is one of the meatier ways of playing it.

As a final rubbing of salt on the wound, though, I will say I deleted a few of the paragraphs I wrote for this post. They said too much, knowing all of that stuff would have made it too easy for you.

You know, I don't hate this answer. 

On one hand it's motivating me to keep searching the game and to pay closer attention to what is said 'and left unsaid'. It also gives me a sense of plausible deniability where in my own headcanon I can just imagine that nothing like that happened to Asterion, because as much as I'd like to know one way or the other, I also really don't want to find out it's a 'yes'. 

Thanks for taking the time to write out a thoughtful answer! ♥️

(2 edits)

I'm not saying that sexual abuse isn't terrible, but where do you think Argos got that white bull pelt? I'd hate to think how that felt when it probably happen while alive, just the act of Argos having that pelt shows how badly Asterions abuse got at one point, and that could have been the considered a lesser form of abuse, it could have been much worse

(+1)

Yeahhhh I noticed that, and it made me quite squeamish to think about...

I can't wait until the game is done and I can just sit down and go through it slowly weighing everything that happens. I know it won't answer all my questions, possibly not even most of them, but I think it will be a helpful process.

(2 edits)

Huh, you know I just assumed it had belonged to his bio-father the Cretan Bull. It was, eventually, sacrificed to Athena at Athens by having its throat slit, so it does tie in with the themes of Asterion being used by the gods for political ends, that which should have been Poseidon's going to Athena and her Athens.  But then again, why would the cow effigy trample it if it wasn't Asterion's? Though then again again, the valley seems hostile to anyone who isn't the master so that could simply be another misdirection.

(1 edit) (+1)

that's a logical assumption, I'd agree with you if I didn't know it was Asterions pelt, it's confirmed in the ruthless route and I'm sure Argos mentions it too in the true route

(+2)

Argos does confirm that he actuallys puts himself in more danger when he wears the pelt, and he only does it for the meetings with the master as part of playing his role in those dealings.