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Project: Eden's Garden

16 talented participants enter the game. Only 2 will walk out alive. · By Project: Eden's Garden, Shade, UndreamedPanic, Sozzay, Zetsis

Mostly negative criticism of the first trail.[Spoilers of course]

A topic by tlittle created 78 days ago Views: 2,633 Replies: 9
Viewing posts 1 to 7
(+10)

I'll get my positives out of the way before I get into my many negatives. The idea of the trial is good. The plan, the motive, the victim and blackened, all of that was great. Taking the characters where in Danganronpa would either be endgame deaths or survivors and making them the first deaths was great. It plays heavily with expectations.  The ending of the chapter is also great and makes me wonder how the rest of the game will go.

 However, the actual logic of the trial is all over the place.

First, let's talk about the elephant in the room. What happened to that entire hour? So Diana walks into the boiler room at 8:45, has a tussle with Wolfgang, and the generator blows up by way of lithium bomb at 9:35. Diana's explanation of the events looks as if, at most, only 5 minutes had passed. 

The moment she called Wolfgang's name, he woke up. That's like a minute, maybe minute and a half .

He confusingly stumbles and mutters about his some vague stuff about his past. That seemed to only take around two minutes. 

Wolfgang swipes at her. Thirty seconds at best. 

Diana picks up the taser and points it at him. Again, thirty seconds at best.

Then Eva drops  the lithium battery.  

What happened to the remaining 45 or so minutes??? 

They even bring it up in trail, but then it's just brushed aside.  Speaking about brushing aside, they never actually explained how Eva managed to steal the lithium battery and taser from their respective dorms. They explained how she knew about the existence of the lithium battery and taser...but, wait a second. Why would she assume that Desmond's blackmail quote meant he had weapons in his dorm? The motive was about secrets, not what was in their dorms. Not only that, but HOW DID SHE STEAL THE STUFF. The game just explains how she knew about the items, but not how she got them, and used her knowing about them as proof she took it. 

I assumed they were going the route of because they all distrusted her that they stayed away from her long enough for her to take the things she needed without being noticed, but that just never happened. As far as the narrative is concerned, she has the items and how she got them doesn't matter, despite the fact her method of retrieval being a core element of pinning her as the blackened. 

Also, one last thing, but this one is minor. 

How did the boiler room door lock? So, Eva turned the lock around. How did she do that, they never explain. But,  the lock was turned so it would lock from the outside, trapping whoever's inside. But who locked the door? Doors don't just automatically lock.  Diana opening it meant that it wasn't locked so she could get inside, and Eva couldn't lock it cause she was at the game tournament.  Did the door just lock itself?

Also, no one pointed out Wolfgang's portrait. Just thought that was weird. 

The first half of the trail was alright, but once we get to the second half, it just turns into a mess of logical fallacies. The ideas are there for an amazing trail, but the actual logic isn't thought through. Hopefully they learn from this and the first trial is just a hiccup as it's the first real trial. 

One last thing, that bullet hell minigame needs fixing. Just give it a small square hitbox like most bullet hell games and don't make the hitbox the size of the entire character and it'll fix so many issues with it. 

(+5)

Agree with the timeline criticisms, it just doesn't line up, they could probably fix it changing a few of Diana's lines saying that once trapped she tried to wake up Wolfgang for a long time before he finally did, as for the rest:

>How did she steal the stuff

I think it's fairly simple, she stole from rooms with nobody inside, and most likely didn't have someone on her at all times, Damon is also suspicious to the other students yet he was able to sneak by to the boiler room to talk to Tozu, considering Eva was planning the murder for a couple of days she likely had plenty of opportunities to be sneaky

>Eva turned the lock around. How did she do that

Yeah, this one has some problems, you'd need a screwdriver to do that, while I'm sure there's one in one of the rooms this is the kind of detail it'd be explained, maybe it's meant to be revealed early in chapter 2, maybe Tozu helped, while the games take from Danganronpa, to assume he tries to be as neutral as Monokuma is probably a mistake

>Doors don't just automatically lock

The one in the boiler room is a kind of lock that does that, it's called a storeroom lock and exists in real life

(2 edits)

> The one in the boiler room is a kind of lock that does that, it's called a storeroom lock and exists in real life.

Can absolutely second this. The doors in my house literally use these types of locks where if they're locked while open then they'll lock the door when it's closed. Hence why the door was left slightly ajar when Diana found it.

> ... considering Eva was planning the murder for a couple of days she likely had plenty of opportunities to be sneaky.

While it's extremely flimsy I do agree with this too since Damon was in the same boat. However, it would've been nice for the game to clarify it at the very least instead of leaving it up in the air.

(-1)

You know, I'm not going to bother engaging with modern day Internet anymore. Wrote a detailed, thoughtful take, criticized a few things (respectfully), even ended with nothing but the highest praise for the game, which I feel is very deserved.
Reply doesn't show, I'm not given a reason, and that's that. At least it's not shadowbanning, I guess. Everywhere is like that these days.

Looks like it showed up. Maybe it just needed to be reviewed?

(+2)

I agree with the criticism about the huge time gap. That plot hole immediately jumped up at me at first.

During the later parts of the trial, they heavily imply Eva needed to know the EXACT second Diana walked into the room so she can trigger the trap right after. It kind of makes me think whether there was some miscommunication among the writers surrounding the evidence.

It would make much more sense if the note Diana received told her to go there in the middle of the tournament. Or if the trap was triggered around 9:10-ish at the latest.

(+1)

The main plot-hole for me is - indeed - the over one hour interval that is never accounted for. It's probably not too hard to fix by tweaking the timing a bit, making the tournament start earlier, say that it was dark and it took a while for Diana to even realize Wolfgang was there, etc.

There were a few instances in the plot that weren't plot-holes per se, just stuff that gave me this feeling of... "These characters have really weird thought processes". Like... the blackmails. Both Toshiko's and Cassidy's are laughable nothing-burgers, right. Tozu himself confesses he was having a hard time finding material and had to wing it. So, in that context, Damon looks at the cryptic one he received about Wolfgang - stuff that looks more like subjective opinion than fact either way - and goes "Oh my, this has got to be important, I should contact my psychopathic kidnapper and ask him to break the rules of his game and give me privileged information!" This might speak more to the sort of person Damon is, though.

Second one, when he's discussing Desmond's with Eva. Again, cryptic shit. Is this "one he trusts" they are talking about a person, an object? Assuming it's a person, is that person here, in Eden Garden? Because these are supposed to be about their lives outside of Eden's Garden, right? But no. Eva jumps to the conclusion Desmond has an entire armory in his dorm, from that vague statement. I don't think the statement supports that conclusion, but on that same token... are you telling me the ULTIMATE MARKSMAN who walks around with a QUIVER FULL OF ARROWS and brags about being proficient with multiple accuracy devices, and has a room themed around his talent here... HAS WEAPONS??? Shocking. But wait. You know what I have NEVER heard being used in target practice competitions? Tasers.

These are relatively minor issues though. 5 chapters of this level of quality,  artwork, music, voice acting, scope, I'd be selling for $60 on Steam. I'm not exaggerating.

(+1)(-1)

Yeah, the Desmond blackmail literally makes zero sense as of right now . I touched on it in my criticism, but the nature of his blackmail and the outcome of it makes no sense. The blackmail is meant to be a secret held by the holder about something in their past, so why would Eva assume the blackmail mean he had literal weapons on him as of right now? Not to mention it is one of the cryptic blackmails, meaning it could mean literally anything until you actively ask Desmond to explain it. 

I will give  some  benefit of doubt and say they're planning on something later. In the trial, Desmond said he didn't even know his room had weapons, which has to be a lie considering the outcome of the trial, and, you know, logic. Maybe it'll come into more play later, but as of me writing this, it is a massive flaw in the writing. 

(+1)

I honestly also have a bit of an issue with the trial asking me to remember one liners that happened outside of the investigation real time hours ago, personally. Plus some of the solutions to Non-Stop debates seem to just... derail the conversation to an unrelated topic someone happened to mention which felt a bit moon logic-y to me? But it may just be a skill issue tbh.

Also I 100% expected them to mention how similar Diana and Wolfgang's mom look and for it to be the reason for Wolfgang's hostile reaction (given the blackmail and Eva knowing about it and blah blah blah).

But hey, it's a first chapter and the rest of it is absolutely stunning, so I guess I can kinda let it slide...

(+1)

They also need the fix the Non-Stop Debates because a lot of gameplay aspects are just poorly designed.

Like the Truth Bullets. Why are they so disorganized? Why is the image of the "internal end" of the cable clearly WAY TOO LARGE to fit through the grate (and inconsistent with how its shown during the closing argument)? Why does the bullet never specify which end is the "internal end", a term that likely differs from region to region? Why are Wenona, Ulysses, Eloise and Desmond's alibis under the "Blackout" truth bullet?? Just MAKE IT ITS OWN BULLET. I don't remember the Storage Closets bullet ever being used so it's clear that not every single bullet has to be used during a class trial. They can just be purely informative.

Which comes to my second point. The trial relies way too much on the player's memory. I'm not gonna remember who initially suggested the time for the competition, or who didn't speak during a certain story segment 4 hours ago or that someone was holding this object during this point of the story which was actually a device to tune in to the cameras situated around the entire school (because obviously that's not a stretch to assume at all). A lot of segments during the game were literally just guessing trial and error because while I knew what information they were asking for, I simply didn't remember because details like that are easy to slip from the mind hours later, and there were no informative truth bullets to help. I'm not Makoto Naegi.

There are also some more minor creases I would've liked to have smoothed out. Such as clarifying when the culprit actually fired the Taser Gun (or clarifying that they even shot it at all) or explaining better how the cable managed to fall through the entire ventilation shaft when the intact end would've likely been heavier than the burnt end. Too many things just get glossed over during the trial (or worse, brought up then prompty ignored without resolution).

I still really liked this chapter, and want to like it more still. This is the most ambitious fan adaption of Danganronpa to date (and the only one that's actually been developed into a game as far as I know). The characters are enjoyable and diverse (and extend past the tired japanese tropes and stereotypes that Spike Chunsoft repeats in every single game), the actual storytelling and progression of the Class Trial is interesting and engaging (I certainly mentally ruled out everyone in the Videogame Tourney as a suspect right off the bat). They just need to fix the many holes in their logic because while a Class Trial is certainly a spectacle, it's also supposed to make sense.