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Unending

A turn based combat puzzle anthology · By st33d

Feature Spitballing Sticky

A topic by st33d created Jan 19, 2020 Views: 538 Replies: 16
Viewing posts 1 to 14
Developer

Post your unreasonable requests and far-fetched ideas in here please.

Current dreamy features I am already considering:

  • play around with turn speed based on attack, doors, empty area, etc.
  • tool-tip when you mouse-over glyphs
  • map painter - faster debugging, design discussion
  • splitter enemy - spawns 3 weaker nearby
  • slow enemy - moves every 2nd turn (self stun?)
  • mutator - transforms adjacent (how?)
  • duplicator - a spawner that spawns spawners
  •  diagonal turner - moves diagonally
  • ai trail - leave breadcrumbs behind player to enable consistent kiting
  •  save full replay - I would basically need the initial PRNG seed and a list of the moves the player made (up, down, left, right), the logic-engine can iterate to any desired turn, it's that fast

My unreasonable suggestion: game modes.

  • time attack
    • complete as many levels in seconds, 
    • or complete levels as fast as possible, 
    • or you have x seconds to make a move before the computer moves for you
  • limited undos
    • player is awarded with undos for
      • making combos
      • food count exceeds some threshold (maybe start off with less than max food and increase max food threshold)
      • etc.
Developer(+1)

I think I'll have to pencil in a turn-speed setting if one wants to apply speed running rules.

I'm often tempted by more undos. I've got to work on saving and loading your current game first - need to see how all these clothes fit in the suitcase sort of thing.

This is a ux thing, and maybe mostly applicable because I played ending, and didn't carefully read the release notes on this, but I think a little help to know that death isn't final would be welcome. 

Developer

I've added a post death "press any key" prompt to my todo list. It was there in my mind, but adding monsters was more fun to do.

TBF I also need to not point out Undo on checkmate when the previous turn only had 1 move that didn't result in death. It happens often enough that I just need to say you're busted - it's over.

(1 edit)

° The Red X that shows you where you can't move shows up a little too slowly for my liking, but that's just a minor nitpick.

° It's also a bit annoying when you die or get checkmated because you can't see behind the level blocks, and the enemies trap you on that turn, then kill you the next. Though, this is also minor.

• Pushable objects?

• An enemy that takes up 2 spaces?

• An enemy that shoots a projectile?

• An enemy that stands still and tries to run away if the player gets too close?

• Picking up food while already at the maximum food count turns the excess food into a projectile?

• Conveyor belts?

• Water to work in the same way as food, but obtained through a different manner?

Thank you for taking a gander at my dumb ideas, and I really love this game.

Developer

Will sit on the Xs till someone else complains as well. Or I might add a setting for them to instantly fade in. Will add a fade out-in to the end of the animation so you can see underneath. But I also plan on adding a mouse-over tool tip.

Wall-allies can already push objects. Wall-player is already possible but it needs to have its own food clock and I've yet to figure that out.

Multi-enemies are cool. I have added it to my todo list. I might be able to use the code that operates hooks to do it.

Bullet enemies are already a thing. About level 4 I think. A bullet-spawner is effectively a turret.

Flee enemy seems like a given. But it needs something else to spice it up - a reason to chase it.

Conveyor belts require a second layer of data. Right now it's completely flat, with two rectangles that define a container around it. I already have the scroll-block working though. That shoves an entire row or column of glyphs - it wraps around the current room it's in. I just haven't tried it with doors yet, because it's going to be pretty bizarre rolling a door into the middle of the room and opening it (the logic still opens a room outside of the current room, it walks from the door's direction till it hits an edge).

That's a very interresting game, but it gets difficult to understand what is going on very quick. Maybe is it more interresting that good now? (Ending was easier to get)

  •  A way to get a description of the different traits would be nice (what it does, what it looks like)
  • Limited undo ? (as proposed above)
  • Some crazyness : when a level is created over an old one, all previous objects are still there, but with added traits.
     
  • Stake : if one trains element touches it, it gets stuck
  • Backward : when something hits it, everything, except that thing, goes one step back in time (and objects resurect)
Developer

Tool tips when you mouse-over an element are on the to-do list.

Not keen on variable undo. Undo is a bad reward. It's the wrong message - for being good at something you are treated like you are bad at it. If you carry on being good then the undos are worthless. Undo is for learning. I will likely add the option to turn it off, but definitely not a mechanic to get it back.

Levels are never generated on top of each other because the code requires to the rooms to be separate for a lot of mechanics to work. Duplicating a room as part of a level progression might be an idea though.

There are no trains - they are implicit due to the HOOK passive (press P to open the editor during a game). There is only a single layer of data, no floor, no sky. This rules out a lot of cool things like jumping over stuff and pressure pads. Maybe something could take away passive abilities like HOOK and WALL - but it would be very boring with no passive abilities around. Or maybe it could trade them - unsure what would be good. Ideally I'd like to be able to do an ally and enemy version, unlike the scroll tile which doesn't really work for enemies.

The level state doesn't keep a record of previous turns (the undo stack is just a pile of level states). So time travel isn't possible. The level data is simple and clean and must stay that way. If we had an enemy that changes state over time, then we could target that property. That's probably something that needs to be made - an element that switches behaviours.

Ah right.
Ok,  some unreasonable suggestion : "conversion". That ability would convert the objet it touches to its color (from bleu to orange, and vice-versa)

"Generic conversion" : conversion given to a grey object, it would swap from to bleu to orange, and orange to bleu.

(1 edit)

Bullets
I love  bullets ! The problem though, is that they tend to die very quick...
A bullet launcher would be great !
There could be a variety of them, based on their shooting frequency (1, 2, 3, 4 turns), and directions  (1, 2, 3 or 4 directions).

(1 edit)

Room connections
Maybe could the connections between rooms have more variety : In ending it was a wall with one opening only. Right now in Unending it is a fully opened wall.
But we could  have different styles of connections :

  • now wall (unending style)
  • 1 one small opening (endind style)
  • A large opening
  • doted line (wall-empty-wall-empty...)
(2 edits)

Giving purpose
Very quick, (for example after reaching level 25), I feel a lack of purpose. Ending was great at making you wish to reach level 8.
I don't know what you make the player wish to keep playing (and staying faithfull to the name "Unending"). Maybe through counting (a displaying on a screen) the number of creature combinations the player has met, or interracted with (bumped into, pushed, switched placed or killed).

When the player reaches increasinlgy larges numbers of different creatures, he could be rewarded with something (a random text ?).

And it would turn the player into a hunter. (I want to catch that bullet ! I want to make that encased explosive and  hooked arrow multiplayer explode...)

Developer

There is already a bullet launcher - the spawner-bullet. I don't want to make new elements that repeat what's already there. This gives me an idea for a cluster bullet however - like the cluster-turner.

I have already considered other exit types - they could be shielded. They could be ally-doors that have to be released by scroll blocks or fighting. I am considering a key-passive for the puzzle mode (you must kill all key enemies to unlock the door). The key might be a good addition to endless.

The endless mode is not finished and neither is the game. The progression is a ramp upwards - whereas desirable progression should be like a sine wave. Developing an algorithm for this is very complicated and takes a long time. I have no intention of letting one finish the endless - you can finish ending, this experience already exists and does not need repeating. I am however considering achievements that one can search for, or quests. It's important to investigate a game experience that has no win state. I understand that a lot of people will be angry or upset that they cannot achieve closure. The point is to keep researching mechanics and play to find a space where a win condition does not need to exist. I don't expect this to be easy or quick to resolve.

I have just tried the PC-Alpha version. I love the evolution !

But now, I wish even more than before to have a bestiary... (record the "creatures" I have interracted with). I could include a nice metaplay !

  • Knowing how many different creature you have interracted with in your sessions (and maybe keep that number as an highscore)
  • Carry on that bestiary from one game to another. (It would be even more fun if the player could name those creatures. And even share the names with a server. But I might go too far there ... ;-) )
  • Get missions such as finding a specific creature. The player would get some help : in this mode, next nevel would and evolution of present level with just one more or less mecanism. Some info would be given on the door to hing which mecanism would be added or removed.

Well... Now back to playing !

Developer (1 edit) (+1)

There's no death log with undo so I guess I need to make a pause screen that feels like a notebook.

However, I feel like you've hit on a point that the endless mode needs more intimacy. How else would you get to know the beasts. It's currently like a sweaty puzzle nightclub. But there's no chill out room. Just corridors full of noise till you hit another dance floor. Maybe ally-doors could help if I buried them under the right elements.