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Onslaught

An audio-only Asteroids-like shooter · By Lights Out Games

Turn Inertia

A topic by ironcross32 created Sep 12, 2020 Views: 271 Replies: 7
Viewing posts 1 to 5

I've noticed that turning is very rigid at the moment. When playing with a controller, I can't even tell whether analog input is being taken into consideration when turning. I think it would be nice to implement turn inertia with acceleration, a max turning rate, and deceleration when you let off either the stick or the arrow.


Using the stick could allow you some freedom over holding your turn at a slower than max rate. Keyboard users could just tap the arrow repeatedly to turn slower.


I feel that this would add more of the arcade feel to the game, and I think it was in place in the original, though my memories of that time are a bit vague.


At any rate, it would allow for taking out rocks that are so close to one another in one smooth motion.

Developer

On one hand, I’m hesitant to change the game substantially for gamepad players in that way. On the other, if you’ve bought a tool specifically to game better, then maybe we should let you play to that tool’s strengths. On the gripping hand, this isn’t meant as a competitive game, so maybe it shouldn’t matter if gamepad changes enable gamepad users to score more than keyboard-only users, as long as they’re having more fun.

Thoughts, anyone? It wouldn’t be hard to respond differently to partial analogue stick movements.

I don't think that it would leave keyboard players disadvantaged. They would just have to rely more heavily on tapping to turn slower. I actually find that I perform better using the keyboard, even though I like using the gamepad.


Another thing, this doesn't really display the same spacial mechanics of the original game. In the original, you couldn't really ever stop. You could just burn your engines and move faster. If you stopped burning, you'd carry on that momentum because you're in space. If you turned, you'd be facing in a different direction than your direction of travel. To fix this, you would have to either turn and burn, or burn after turning. Doing so would kind of add velocity to a different direction. You could travel in diagonal arcs even. The only way to slow down would be to flip a 180 and burn in that direction.

Developer

Ah, I see, they just made the motion more physically accurate for space. Not sure how to capture that in audio, but am open to suggestions. But I take your point that a) the game is already different and b) keyboard users can use different methods to achieve the same goal.

I’ll play with analogue mechanics for a possible end-of-week update. Working on some other fixes for this next one.

Hi, I can tell that there is now some consideration for analog input in both forward thrust and turning. The turning though still feels very harsh. I don't really know what words I'd use, but it feels like rotating something in your hand where there's a motion and a stop that's harsh. I guess what I'm after is a sort of more spacey feel like Elite:Dangerous with assists off where you start turning, build to a peak rotational velocity, then when you let go of the stick or the arrows, your rotation slows down until it stops.


This type of movement is what's going to let players come in and clear the big ones entirely in a smooth maneuver. It's the sort of thing that makes you feel like you're piloting something because there's a bit of momentum carrying you through a turn. so if I come in on a big rock and fire, and it splits left of me, I'm going to start a left turn and learn the mechanics of when to let off so I fire at the right points to blast them all in one single smooth motion..


Right now, it's very stilted and stiff feeling. Definitely playable, but not as the original Asteroids felt.

Developer

Hmm, there are two ways I can interpret what you wrote.

So the way acceleration works right now is that you have a maximum speed you can’t exceed (wow, there’s a snarky discouraging insult in there somewhere. :) Pressing Up adds some amount of delta to your speed based on how far forward you’ve pushed the stick. But you can never exceed the maximum, you just approach it more quickly.

Are you suggesting that turning work the exact same way, where you ramp up or down from the maximum turn speed based on how far left/right the stick is? Or that your maximum turn speed is determined by how far left/right the stick is, and you ramp up and down to that at some fixed rate?

Would like to hear other folks chime in here. It breaks from the traditional “center and shoot” mechanic of most audio games, but maybe that’s past due anyway.

Sounds kind of like the second to me...? I guess what I'm after is a smooth application as well as roll off when you release the stick. And yeah it could just be a me thing, so it would be good to hear from others. I just think it would make it feel better.


I guess thinking of it like the ship that you're in; well when can you just start turning and decide to stop in that moment. It wouldn't happen. Math is reeeeeeally not my strong suit so I'll try just explaining pseudo-concepts.


If you're flying and you initiate a turn, then you center your stick, you wouldn't stop turning in that moment. Let's say that the ship had a computer to apply thrust in the opposite direction. I'm thinking of a ship with an RCS system at the front. Or something we have here on earth, a big barge with bow thrusters which you'd use to help you slide into dock.


Whatever system you have is going to have to calculate how much thrust to apply in the opposite direction to bring your rotational velocity to a stop, but also do it in such a way that it doesn't kill you or fling you across the cockpit.


So that's sort of what I'm after, just something to make us feel that external forces - or actually lack of forces are playing at our ship. I'm not suggesting that we continue to rotate indefinitely, or spin 900 degrees before finally stopping. I just think that a smooth roll on and roll off or ramp up and ramp down once the stick is pressed and returned to neutral will help make it feel more real. Also, if you did want to stop your rotation quicker, you could just apply a little opposite stick for a short time.


As you say, it does break away from the center and shoot trope, but I think it could be fun trying to get to the point where you could just start a turn, ease off the stick and fire a few times and hopefully it carries you through just enough to land multiple hits on multiple rocks.


I also think it would help in situations where you and the rocks are moving so fast that you have to line up a shot that will hit where the rock will be by the time it gets there. That doesn't happen a whole lot in this game, but it can.


For the stick partial movements, I guess a fixed accceleration is fine but the max rate of turn then is reduced from full. It would probably scale though.

Developer

I’ve decided that this sounds fun and deserves a chance to prove itself.

My next goal is to try running Onslaught on my Xbox–should theoretically be doable since default UWP builds already work–but after that, I’m giving this a shot.