Post by Artem Flo / aturbidflow / kubikámi in Design Thread

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Artem Flo / aturbidflow / kubikámi5 years ago

And hello again, I'm ready to return to development =) And at the moment I have new couple of question about the rules. I hope this time I've selected the right thread.

1. As the rules say, responses should contains maximum of six words. And the question is how words will be counted? By space delimiters? Or by some "yes-this-is-a-word" logic? Is this string: "1. Option 2. Another 3. Last" contains three words or six? And this: "(whisper) Password to room: 3445"?

2. The second question is about TWO WORD restrictions. I understand, that it should not be more than two word, but what about one word? I mean, here is a shorthands for directions, like NORTH for GO NORTH etc. Is some one-word aliases permitted?

3. And the other question about more than two words after all) And again, speech about the aliases. If I process the two-words input, for example in some conversation, like "ask help", will it be a violation of the rules if will be processed "ask for help" too. So I am talking just about additional options. Or I better add them to the post-jam version?

4. And the last one. The rules doesn't say a word about this, but it would be interesting for me to add some additional visual effects (not graphics) to the compiled version. Is it forbidden or (I hope) not?

Adventuron5 years ago

Hi, glad to have you back.

1. The words I would say are counted by any delimiter so hyphenated words will count as two words, but words ending with an apostrophe s will be counted as one word. Numbered lists will be an exception, in that case then the prefixing number will not be counted, so long as the number is not part of the conveyed information.

2. Up to two words is the input (processing) restriction. The game should expect VERB, or VERB NOUN, or perhaps just NOUN. "GO NORTH" is already handled by adventuron and it will change the input the "NORTH", same with all other directions. Handling one word inputs is definitely allowed. Adventuron throws away extra words, so if the player types CUT ROPE WITH SWORD, then the game should only process "CUT ROPE", the "WITH SWORD" will be ignored.

3. Similarly, if the player types "ASK FOR HELP" and you create a matcher like : match "ask help", then FOR will be a word that is not in the game dictionary and will be discarded by the parser. Therefore the player can type "ASK HELP" or "ASK FOR HELP" and a matcher that just processes "ASK HELP" will process both inputs. It is expected that players will be informed on the game page to expect one or two word inputs.

4. Visual effects are allowed, but not graphics, if you can figure out how to do them. I won't help with this.

Garry Francis5 years ago

I have an issue with 1. If I have a hyphenated compound noun, then I would have thought that was one word. For example, if I go to my hypothetical hotel (from another thread) and I need to buy a six-pack to take home to my mother-in-law, then I can't do any of it. I can define six-pack as an object with six-pack as a noun, but your rule would prevent me doing anything to the six-pack. Can't examine it. Can't buy it. Can't get it. Similarly, I can define my mother-in-law as an object and a noun, but I can't examine her, talk to her or give her the six-pack. That's pretty harsh, isn't it?

Adventuron5 years ago

I suppose this is maybe open to discussion, and I agree it is very harsh.

But without it, what's to stop you from doing something like;

monster : object "monster-with-a-huge-horn-and-an-angry-face";

Such names are not truly necessary. They can be reworked.

six-pack could be tinnies.
mother-in-law could be mother.

Trying to fit within the constraints of the jam will necessarily lead to things that are simply not possible. In my mind, the point of such a cruel and arbitrary constraint in the jam is to force the use of creative ways around them I suppose. It may require renaming things, or reworking characters (mother rather than mother-in-law).

The two word limit for objects, maybe could be reduced to a three word limit, but I think part of the fun of the jam is to try to fit under that limit. Hyphenated words are clearly a way to exploit the word limit. I did put in an exemption for 's, because it's a terminator and 's' by itself is a grammar modifier, not a conveyer of more information. But is mother-in-law one word or three words? Most people would say three, hyphen or no hyphen.

Garry Francis5 years ago

I was using six-pack and mother-in-law as an example. I would have thought that if it's defined that way in the dictionary, then it's fair game. "monster-with-a-huge-horn-and-an-angry-face" is not defined in the dictionary and is clearly cheating. Unfortunately, my object doesn't have any synonyms and the parts within the hyphenated word are crucial clues to a puzzle. So, in the spirit of the newly unveiled interpretation of the rules, I am going to ditch that puzzle completely. :-(

Adventuron5 years ago(+1)

I suppose this is maybe open to discussion, and I agree it is very harsh

Open to discussion.

Maybe an "in dictionary" clarification is a good compromise.

Artem Flo / aturbidflow / kubikámi5 years ago (1 edit)

I have another question about delimiters. For example, how security codes will be counted? For example something like "sdgw23f-asf23:23fa". It have a dash and a semicolon, but in my understanding this is one word. Ant what about abbreviations? Like S.M.A.R.T. or U.X.210?

Garry Francis5 years ago

As a potential player, I personally think they're okay. I think the space should be the only delimiter between words and any other punctuation should be ignored from the word count. See what Adventuron thinks.

Adventuron5 years ago(+1)

S.M.A.R.T would be one word.

UX210 would be one word.

I will clarify a word to mean either a name, a dictionary word, or a codeword. Punctuation will be largely ignored. I think we'll know if someone breaks this rule in spirit.

Artem Flo / aturbidflow / kubikámi5 years ago

Yes. Everything is great, but I have one question that haunts me. English is not my native language, so I don't know, will be articles "a/the" counted as separate words or not. If yes then it will be really hardcore with six-words restriction. "The blue key is in the room." is already seven words then.

Garry Francis5 years ago

Yes. The rules explicitly say that "Locations descriptions and object names should be a maximum of TWO words and displayed without an article". You can use articles in your messages, but these will add to the word count. In your example, you could say, "Blue key in room."

Now, imagine how hard it is for me. I'm using the optional two-word limit on ALL messages! So, assuming this is something you've just discovered, I would have to say something like, "See key." or "Find key." or "Discover key." The fact that it's in the room is implied and the fact that it's blue is in the object description.

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Adventuron5 years ago

object lists are listed simply using the TWO theme and the adjective noun of all objects have their own two word limit. You can can 20 objects in the room if you wish. This is the best way to display contents of a room.

The 6 word limit refers to a reponsr in the game...

Things like ....

"Something happened."

"You hear a click.

Then update the objects in the room, perhaps Garry has more time to explain this more.? Sorry , in airport now.

Artem Flo / aturbidflow / kubikámi5 years ago

Oh, wow. The answer gives me more freedom than I expected. Thank you.

itch.io

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