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Survansix7 days ago(+1)

Ah breadpan, you're awesome 🙌

You're making peoples' days doing the write-ups you're doing. Seriously kind stuff.

I've itemised each of your feedback bits and pieces and we'll be working through them systematically to get the gameplay feeling as delicious and crunchy as possible (like a good 🍞).

If I may ask for one more comment - we're building out this prototype into a full game with a campaign, storyline, endless wave mode, more enemy types (torches that start fires, wards that block possession, that kinda thing) - oh and a perk tree for a roguelite vibe. The vision is to "Orcs Must Die" it, if you get my meaning 😅 Could you see yourself paying 20 bucks for something like that? If no, what features would need to be in the game to get you over the line (or what price point)? If yes, what would you be hoping the game delivers on?

Thanks again!

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breadpan7 days ago(+1)

Thank you for the kind words!

I’ll take it as 20 USD is the price. First and foremost, I have never played Orcs must die so I don’t really get the vision, so my opinion will mainly be generally based off other games.

For the current game as it is, the first issue that has to be fixed is the crashes, as that is what stops your game from being played the most.

The most important thing, especially in a paid game is gameplay and content. The gameplay currently seems fine, and as you are adding more enemy types, a storyline, perk trees etc., I don’t really see that as too much of a problem.

But the content seems severely lacking. If you look at other games, for example, one of your inspirations, Ori and the Blind Forest is $19.99 (technically same price as yours) but has close to 10 hours of gameplay content. Some other examples are, Hollow Knight at $14.99 with over 20 hours of gameplay, Hades at $24.99 with over 20 hours of gameplay, Risk of Rain 2 at $24.99 with around 7-8 hours of gameplay, but very replayable.

Most of those games are hours in length, and despite Risk of Rain 2 there being the shortest game, I actually spent the most hours on that due to the replayability. If your game’s pricing point is competing with games like those, it has to have hours of gameplay minimally. The gameplay should also not be fillers, and say, expanding from 10 days of enemy waves to 100 days of enemy waves just to extend playtime, but new areas and mechanics that the players can enjoy.

If you feel the game can’t be as in-depth as those games, I feel it’s better to lower the price, or to spend way more time adding depth to the game. Game Jam games are usually best being really short, so the current game should only be a very small fraction of the full game based on your scope, think in the sense of half of Forgotten Crossroads being Hollow Knight’s prototype.

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Survansix7 days ago(+1)

Ah yeah you're very right, content is key for sure.

Orcs Must Die is a tower-defense / shoot-em-up hybrid, familiar to this (which we realised after we made the game). They encourage replayability quite brilliantly by allowing the player to go through the maps in campaign mode, then play again on harder difficulties, or try an endless mode. There's also a co-op mode, and leaderboards for each mode / difficulty shared with friends, plus global highscores. Then there's a perk tree system that allows you to gradually unlock more skills & traps as you earn more stars for doing well in the levels.

We're also contemplating introducing a light touch of roguelite elements to randomise powerups in the level - something like a "choose a bonus from these options" kinda thing each night, to encourage the player to try different playstyles (e.g. you could play aggressively and focus on possession, play strategically and lay more traps, or focus more on stealth and try to thwart their plans without getting caught). But this definitely requires finetuning.

There's also a reasonably low-hanging fruit of local multiplayer. But on Steam that mightn't count for much (more on console). Online MP is out of scope for the first release, I'd say.

But, assuming we created ~10-15 hours of replayable content, it sounds like you're saying Phantom of the Grove's gameplay is interesting enough and the premise is captivating enough that, sans the bugs, you'd give it a try for $20 USD?

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breadpan6 days ago(+1)

Personally, likely not. As my usual games are mainly survival games, like Subnautica, Ark Survival, The Forest or MMOs like FFXIV Online, so I’m likely not your target audience.

But, I do say that the gameplay is something that players would pay for, it currently is quite simple, but has many ways to expand on like you mentioned a perk tree, campaign more, more enemy types etc. If you are able to put out something interesting that can be played for 10-15 hours, your main concern should be marketing and letting your game be known. Be it reducing the price, so more players get to try it, or releasing a demo of the first few levels, the main priority should be getting your game’s name out there, unless you’re creating something so unique and amazing that players will advertise it themselves.

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Survansix6 days ago(+1)

That's great feedback, thank you so much for your time! Reach out to us if you'd ever like feedback on one of your games. I'm always happy to record myself playing and give live commentary - I find the best way to truly see the heatmap of friction for new players is to watch them play through it.

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